Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby dileTTante » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:41 pm

This is posted here to keep it out of TT Tracks discussion.
j p wrote:
dileTTante wrote: Too bad there are no N. American passenger trains in TT.

- Terry C


How did you come to that conclusion? There are many NA passenger trains in TT. There are no RTR, but many different kits can be found.

- Jan
I came to that conclusion because I have never seen any - or at least none to modern standards. I have purchased a collection of HP passenger cars to put together but can't find trucks. All the HP sets of cars which I have seen on ebay had poor paint jobs. None had detailing done to modern expectations. And the sets cost as much or more than new ready to run sets in other scales, because the HP items are collectibles.

And what about locomotives? I spent hours and dollars to get an HP 4-6-2 running. Despite its nice appearance it still gives poor performance in return for all that has been invested. The E7 I bought was also overpriced and in poor condition. The large gears in the drive rub against the body on the curves of the TT Tracks layout, making even more racket than the normal drive noise. I hoped to use the steam and diesel for passenger trains but they have been a waste of time and money in my opinion. Bill Dixon still can't get his F unit running well.

And I had RTR in mind when I made the original comment. The boy who helped us at our recent show liked my ICE train a lot. Everyone does. And I have a beautiful set of the Rheingold, complete with locomotive. The boy showed me the cars he bought - Amtrak Superliner in N scale, by Kato. I would jump at the chance to get the Superliner in TT. Where's the F40PH?

So please help by pointing out where these passenger car kits can be obtained. (??) And the trucks to go with them? And are they remotely affordable? And will they look okay pulled by SW1200s? (because that's all we have)

- Terry C
Last edited by dileTTante on Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are the Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby j p » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:59 pm

Hmm, you end with another incorrect statement about the locomotives. Then it is difficult...
I have at least 20 different locomotives, why do you think that only SW1200 is available? Just try to browse this board, many locomotives are shown in it. How about those nice Alco RS-3 and Dash 9 models from Ingo? How about FP-7 from Tillig? How about GP38? Many locomotives are available from Shapeways. Alco PA would be a good candidate for pulling a passenger train.

Regarding the passenger cars: there are many.
Old-timer 1890's wooden cars from Gandy Dancer
60' Gandy Dancer steel passenger cars (copied and improved later by John Harmon and PVM)
80' heavyweight cars from Jewel models, with 4 wheels or 6 wheels trucks from Kemtron
John Harmon's passenger train sets.
Even the entire PRR Congressional train is available, 14 cars - from Shapeways, with many different cars:
Seven units of P85H, one unit of D85ED Coffee Shop, one unit of D85C Diner, one unit of DL85D Kitchen-Bar-Lounge Car, one unit of PP85A Drawing Room-Parlor Car, two units of PP85 Parlor Car, one unit of POC85 Observation Car. Locomotive for that is available too: Lionel's GG-1 (it needs a different paint if you want to have it 100% prototypical for the Congressional)

The original HP E7 is not supposed to run on sharp curves of TT-tracks, checking the NMRA or NEM standards and RP would help. The shortened version of E7 made in Germany (TT Union) would probably make it. Sharp curves save space, but then please accept that longer models are not suitable for them. Some models can be modified and some cannot.

Where is the F40PH? Here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/HU5N7EN4W/tt-scale-f40ph
I don't know where is the Superliner, but it should be possible to get Surfliners if people wanted them (too new for me).

I don't say that everything is easy to get, but those models exist.
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Re: Where are the Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby MacG » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:31 pm

There were also the cars from Rokal and whose the lengthened version, done by A&K.

You have also the GP9 from Lionel. There you can add the steam boiler details at the roof. The F40PH is a good future project for a drive-chassis.
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Re: Where are the Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby dileTTante » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:59 pm

j p wrote:Regarding the passenger cars: there are many.

I appreciate your positive and helpful response. I hope my complaints generate a positive discussion and this is a good start.

First, I thank you for the link to the F40PH. This is very interesting and worth pursuing. Bill Dixon has a line on possible 3D printed coaches, and this makes a VIA train something to hope for.

The following may seem like more complaining, but it's to illustrate our situation and to get more helpful suggestions.
j p wrote:Hmm, you end with another incorrect statement about the locomotives.
I said that SW1200s are all we have, and that is correct. At the last show Bill tried to get his E unit running after improving the drive and it still didn't work. He has a LoknRoll diesel that has a inferior drive and won't run. Bjoern, when he was with us in Vancouver, revived a Kemtron Alco- it looked good, but sounded like a power tool and couldn't pull much. All we have that run are SW1200s. And thank you for that, Mark.
j p wrote:The original HP E7 is not supposed to run on sharp curves of TT-tracks, checking the NMRA or NEM standards and RP would help.
Checking the NMRA standards doesn't tell me anything that I didn't discover by running the locomotive, namely, that it can't be used at our train shows. Useful suggestions for improving the drive would be very welcomed.
j p wrote:How about those nice Alco RS-3 and Dash 9 models from Ingo? How about FP-7 from Tillig?
Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180(posted on TTNut)
scaro wrote:Frankly, the Tillig one looks only slightly less crude than the Lionel one. Now I know why! If I bought this, I'd be mightily pissed off, given the price.

and --
scaro wrote:TT needs an F3 or F7 cab diesel. Making an EMD nose is not easy so a shell would be handy. No disrespect to the Lionel as it filled a gap, but it is a toy and won't attract anyone to TT.

Re: RS-3 Pictures(posted on TTNut)
Carsten wrote:The RS3 kits have been sold out, so far I know.

So, some of the locomotives you suggest are not available at all. Some are just not very good models, either in appearance or performance. And some are simply unaffordable. That's why I say all we have are SW1200s

Your suggestions for passenger equipment are very interesting and I'll investigate. But the old stuff you suggest isn't up to modern model standards. When I discovered TT years ago I understood that if I wanted to get trains and run them without too much trouble I'd have to buy models of German railways. I have many trains that were affordable and work well. My interest in N. American TT is mainly from promoting TT scale at train shows for several years. I still say it's too bad there are no N. American passenger trains in TT, because the suggestions given so far aren't going to cut it with the public.

- Terry C
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Re: Where are the Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby Bernd » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:42 pm

My interest in N. American TT is mainly from promoting TT scale at train shows for several years. I still say it's too bad there are no N. American passenger trains in TT, because the suggestions given so far aren't going to cut it with the public.

- Terry C


Very well said Terry. I agree with you 100%. I have a two SW1200's. I made them into a cow & calf engine set. I also have two of the GP38's I was going to build drives for but never got around to it.

Here's my experience with a European kit. https://www.ttnut.com/lok-n-roll-0-6-0-switcher-kit-t2729.html

I'm hanging in here for now. I'd like to get a table top plastic injection system set for small runs. At the rate I'm going I don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

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Re: Where are the Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby j p » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:06 pm

F units are available on Shapeways too, I haven't tested them yet though.

FP7 from Tillig is not 100% correct, but it is a good runner.
fp7.jpg


HP E7: I have one with a new drive from RobM, it runs better than the original.
Another possibility would be to use Tillig's drive (something like the one I used for Alco PA).

RS-3s were made to order, in 2 (or more?) series, incl. details specific for their railroad (I have 3 different). Dash 9 were made to order too. You can ask the manufacturer if he could make another run.

The "old stuff" can be made up to modern standards. Most of it can.

VIA tested "Flexliner" trains. Those are available on Shapeways - if you can live with somehow smaller air-conditioning units. (VIA was testing train sets manufactured for Israeli railways, while the Shapeways model is a version for Danish and Swedish railways.)
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Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby CFRiad » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:59 pm

So, yeah... Everybody is right, I guess.

@j p and @MacG are right that there are/were many kits and bits/pieces available for those who have the time, patience and skill to make them into good/beautiful models. Also there are a scarce few but pricy RTR models for those who have the cash.

@dileTTante is right that there are no affordable RTR locos (other than the SW1200) or passenger cars for those who simply want to run trains. I understand his frustration. His perspective is based on the questions we get at shows: "where can I buy these". The answer is always: "weeeelll... it's a long story" and the conversation stops soon after our explanation.

That being said, I can live with this. I am not loosing any sleep on having only one loco type. For me this is a hobby and it has to be fun. I am trying to make the best of what I have. I am quite fine running freight trains with lots of tankers and boxcars. Mind you, we the Vancouverites are lucky because we pool our resources. When we get together at shows, the material available is quite impressive.

The models in my affordability and skill range are the those made by MTB, Zeuke and Gold Coast (sigh...). When a RTR road loco in the $200 range will be available, I will buy a few. Until then, SW1200s, tankers and coal cars all the way.
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Re: Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby MacG » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:52 am

CFRiad wrote:... there are/were many kits and bits/pieces available for those who have the time, patience and skill to make them into good/beautiful models. Also there are a scarce few but pricy RTR models for those who have the cash. ...


If you don't have the time or skills to build a kit together, then you have to pay for. Here in Germany is the work time pricey. The model builders do not calculate all the hours invested. If they would, then the models were much more expensive. It's also a hobby for them.

You need a person in North America who has the skills and offer them for others. Here in Germany only Lionel locos or a new MTB-model would be laying under the $200 limit for an RTR-model.

Gold Coast is under Lok-n-Roll still in business. It is a pity that even China is getting more and more expensive and has raised the lot size. Without that, it would be still in Felix's hands.
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Re: Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby CFRiad » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:19 pm

MacG wrote:If you don't have the time or skills to build a kit together, then you have to pay [...]

Not necessarily. Choosing to go without is always an option.

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Re: Where are the N. American Passenger Cars in TT?

Postby dileTTante » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm

j p wrote:VIA tested "Flexliner" trains. Those are available on Shapeways - if you can live with somehow smaller air-conditioning units.
This train looks very interesting. I knew nothing about this Canadian train. I found your post about it from 2017 and followed the link you gave to shapeways. It would be nice if you posted pictures of your finished model, and maybe some information about how you put a motor in it.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFJTHVHU/dsb-ic3-tt

It's not the air-conditioning units that are objectionable, it's the price. It's interesting from another aspect -- there's a youtube about a model of the Flexliner --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHBYTRPfzc
The guy who made the video says -
a model was made of it in HO Scale by Heljan. I picked this up at a garage sale a few years ago for only $3.
Meaning that some company thought this train was worth producing in HO, while no company thinks it's worth producing any well-known N. American passenger train in TT.
MacG wrote:If you don't have the time or skills to build a kit together, then you have to pay for.
That pretty well explains why there's little future for N. American TT becoming popular. This gives me a new perspective. From now on I'll just enjoy running our trains at the shows and forget about giving a sales pitch and handing out pamphlets.
- Terry C
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