Zeuke-TT, what's new?

rdikken
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by rdikken » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:47 am

Questions regarding CN F7's:
- they are always without dynamic brake? Also GTW F7's
- they are always without a Mars light? Only one head light.
- they have often a winter cover on the last cooling fan

Do they mostly drive in a ABA or AB configuration? ABBA seems to be less common. Is a CN F7A + CN F7B + GTW F7A
configuration also possible?

Ciao,
Rob

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Marquette
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by Marquette » Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:04 pm

I'm not familiar enough with the details of CN F7s to comment about the first four points, but re: CN and GTW units together: not really likely. Back then for a locomotive to work in Canada it had to be duty paid in Canada, so US railroads operating in Canada had engines that were stationed in Canada, as well as freight cars dedicated for Canadian domestic use. Although GTW was wholly owned by CN, it was registered in the US as an American corporation, so all the usual rules applied to them, too. In most of the period that F7s were in use the only physical connection between the GTW and CN was the St Clair Tunnel between Sarnia, Ontario and Port Huron, Michigan - and trains were moved through the tunnel by electric locomotives belonging to the St Clair Tunnel Company (another CN subsidiary), so it seems very unlikely they would ever have operated together. Post NAFTA and railway deregulation, things are different.
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sacto-tt
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by sacto-tt » Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:41 am

As someone that grew up around trains, I can tell you that most railroads will preferentially use their own cars because that makes them more money. For trains that originate and terminate on home tracks, the majority of cars in a train will be owned by the local railroad (if possible). For trains that are leaving the area, cars owned by railroads in the destination area will be used (if possible) to get them out of the local pool. I remember seeing NWP/SP 100+ car trains where virtually every car was an SP car.

On the subject of car types, be careful not to get hung up on boxcars, covered hoppers outnumber them substantially today and have for years. Last time I checked, this was also true of tank cars and gondolas. Now the makeup of any particular train is based on what they are carrying, but a good mix of cars is the general rule these days.
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by j p » Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:54 am

Marquette wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:10 pm ...but the most important thing you should tell the modellers is that only time period matters, *not* the railway - any boxcar can fit in any train. I've seen boxcars from Mexico and literally all over the US here in Vancouver. And it's better for you, the manufacturer, too, if the customer understands this, as you'll sell more!

And boxcars from the 50s and 60s were still around in the 80s when I was a kid... so yeah, I think it's in your interest as well to help people understand this, that it is extremely inaccurate for an American train to be of all (or even mostly) the same railway's equipment. (Canada is a somewhat different story.)
Some exceptions:
- Cuba after 1960
- NYCs Pacemaker express
- local freight trains running light
- ore trains, some coal trains
- closed systems/narrow gauge such as EBT

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Marquette
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by Marquette » Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:18 am

sacto-tt wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:41 am As someone that grew up around trains, I can tell you that most railroads will preferentially use their own cars because that makes them more money. For trains that originate and terminate on home tracks, the majority of cars in a train will be owned by the local railroad (if possible). For trains that are leaving the area, cars owned by railroads in the destination area will be used (if possible) to get them out of the local pool. I remember seeing NWP/SP 100+ car trains where virtually every car was an SP car.
SP is a bit of an exception in that, depending on the route; likewise Pennsy and other railways with massive boxcar fleets of their own (NYC, MILW, etc). But for periods from the 1970s and earlier, before the great consolidations, the numbers have been crunched extensively, analyses of photos, consist lists/wheel reports, etc, and *generally* it was found that in the average freight train not more than 10% of the boxcars are home road, and the other 90% generally break down by roadname according to the size of the owning road's fleet. I've written in depth on this on this forum, and there are years and years and years of discussion and analysis on this subject.

As you said, for shipments that start and end on line, a railroad will use its own car - but not because that makes more money, but because that avoids having to pay the owner of a foreign car per diem fees...

...but I'm gonna stop here because this is a MASSIVE subject. They key takeaway, though, is that for someone *not* modelling a specific area, if they're wanting to just put together a nice long-distance mainline freight train, they'll need a good mix of roadnames, of which only about 10-20% is home road. In a typical (1970s or earlier, I know little about later periods and care rather less, aside from BC Hydro) train with say 15 cars, I'd have 8-10 being boxcars, 2-3 of which are home road, and at least one each of Pennsy, NYC, ATSF, and SP/SSW, the rest whatever, could be anything from Algoma Central to NdeM.
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by rdikken » Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:34 am

Thxs guys,

Still learning.

Regarding a CN F7, it will be without a dynamic brake and with one headlight. See pictures. Regarding GTW I am not sure, I do not have good enough pictures, so that one has to wait and has now a low priority after what is being said. Regarding the winter cover on the last cooling fan, see picture. It is not always attached. But if so, Is it a simple box? You also see these on CNW or MILW F7's, etc.

And thxs again for your input. That helps.

Ciao,
Rob
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Rich1853
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by Rich1853 » Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:59 am

What about MOW or work trains, are they from a single railroad or outside as a contractor.
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Marquette
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by Marquette » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:11 am

Rich1853 wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:59 am What about MOW or work trains, are they from a single railroad or outside as a contractor.
Generally home road but I'm sure some cases exist of contracting out.
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by MacG » Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:32 pm

rdikken wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:34 am ... Regarding the winter cover on the last cooling fan, see picture. It is not always attached. But if so, Is it a simple box? You also see these on CNW or MILW F7's, etc. ...
These Winterization Hatches have round or square grills on the top. The original covers have louvers inside under the grille that can be adjusted as needed to direct the air. The air can flow back into the engine compartment or leave it through the grille to the outside. These were permanently mounted on the roof. Which was not necessary for locomotives in milder climates.

For the GTW I can only find pictures of F3s (series 9000).
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TheKnighTT
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Re: Zeuke-TT, what's new?

Post by TheKnighTT » Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:57 pm

MacG is right, GTW only had F3s (9000-9027) built in 1948. I think some of those were later taken over by CN and rebuilt into F7s. That might be a lead, but I´m no expert on CN.

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