MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

User avatar
ConducTTor
Site Admin
Posts: 8947
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Atlanta GA USA
Contact:

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by ConducTTor »

j p wrote:
MacG wrote:
ConducTTor wrote:Also engine room window closest to cab door is not correct.
Which one? The last window at the prototype is open and on the model in closed position. The window frames have the wrong color.
It seems to me that the engine room window closest to cab door is correct. What do you think is wrong with it?
The last window is not close to the cab door and its frame is painted wrong. The prototype has only one cab door on each side.
Oops, you guys are correct :shifty:
My website: https://www.ttnut.com
It's the website you're already on. But if you want to be even more on it, click the link.

j p
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

I can run the engine solo to the depot on my layout, why not? It should not be up to the manufacturer to decide in which situation I may or may not use the engine. The train with one of those at each end can be made, the cars are available from Kuehn. And it is much shorter than express trains with Y-cars (= easier to find long enough station tracks for it)
It does not matter if the engine is active or not. It has to have the red light turned on when it is at the end of the train. If there is no engine at the end, the last car has to have the red end light on.
Both of the engines would have to be active on the model, of course.

My point is that if Kuehn, Tillig, and others have the possibility for red light on their models, then most customers (who know close to nothing about the use of it) would also expect it on MTB models. It should not be compared to 50 years old Gützold's model, it should be compared to new models from Kuehn (such as CSD class 372 which costs less but its quality is better)
The model has 1990-1993 paint scheme. At that time the engine was 30 years old and many of them were already scrapped. It was used in helper service or as a substitute in case of break down.
The same engine in 1960s paint would have less use for the red light, because it would be pulling express trains, yet it would have to return to its depot sometimes :lol:

As I mentioned, this is only a minor problem for me. Please don't try to make a "feature" out of a missing function. The goal is to help MTB to make their future models better. It sells good because there is no competition.

And no, the red light is needed on all locomotives running as helpers, not only the newest ones. Push-pull was used in Europe even with steam locomotives. Helper engines were used (almost) since the railroads started. Look at some pictures or videos from Horseshoe Curve. Most of the trains had helper, or rather helpers. And the helpers are used now too. The difference is that the helpers in the past were used only on the way up the grade and returned back without any train. They are used now also on the way down the grade to add additional dynamic brake power (saving $$).

j p
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

krokodil wrote:In the depot you do not need the red light, it is a switching run with white lights on both ends.
The red light on any vehicle means "end of train", and a single loco is not a train ( with a few exceptions).

Yes, I know many customers prefer a christmas trees instead of real trains with prototypical lights ( the industry misseducates them) and seems that even the specialized magazines support the very unprototypical lighting ( even in the DCC where you can switch the lights are very often very strange lighting schemes). I have not read any complains about the lights which are stronger than xenon lights of my car, while on the real vehicles the lights are just signals to be seen and not for lighting ( except the main front beam).
Man, you are only pretending not to understand?
Of course, you need red lights when returning back to the depot. Switching is only within the station limits in most cases. Also the maximum speed is limited for switching. When the locomotive is returning from the end of the line alone to its home station and home depot, it has to have red lights on. Because even though it is only the engine, it is still considered as train. Single loco running between the stations is always a train, even a helper returning from half-way between the stations is a train.

User avatar
LVG1
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Guben / Gubin; Germany? Poland?—No, Lusatia!
Contact:

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by LVG1 »

Theory:
If something is a train, does not depend on the number of vehicles. It's defined by the kind of operation.
Switching is a simplified way of operation. Therefore it's only permitted in limited areas (stations and sidings).
Anything running on the route outside stations is a train—even single locomotives.

Practice:
Have you ever looked close to the prototype?
I've often seen that locomotive engineers do not always keep too strict to the lighting rules...
"Let's eat, grandpa."
Punctuation marks save lives!

j p
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

In Europe shunting was normally not allowed outside of the station limits and sidings during normal operation because shunting beyond the entry signal of the station could cause collision with the incoming train. The limit for shunting was (is) marked. In case of CSD, it was 50 meters from the entry signal.

Here are some pictures of other engines clearly showing the red lights.
http://www.trainfoto.eu/FOTO/SK_125.841 ... 4_0000.jpg
http://www.vlaky.net/upload/images/repo ... 117/12.jpg
Even Japanese locomotives use red lights:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5266/559 ... 03111b.jpg

User avatar
LVG1
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Guben / Gubin; Germany? Poland?—No, Lusatia!
Contact:

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by LVG1 »

krokodil wrote:how often do you have such convoys on the layout?
Why do you want to limit the model railroader's possibilities?
"Let's eat, grandpa."
Punctuation marks save lives!

User avatar
ConducTTor
Site Admin
Posts: 8947
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Atlanta GA USA
Contact:

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by ConducTTor »

I think a manufacturer should build models as close as possible to the real thing. The owner of a model can choose how to use it.
My website: https://www.ttnut.com
It's the website you're already on. But if you want to be even more on it, click the link.

j p
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

krokodil wrote:The problem is you always find the exceptions.
On the first picture it is a train of 3 locomotives (typical where the helper move back to the station in a convoy).
The second picture is a cog railway where the locomotive is always pushing the train up to the hill.
I do not know nothing about the japanies locomotive but she is also on the end of the train ( normal push pull service).
For the mentioned Bobina only the first picture applies. ( how often do you have such convoys on the layout?)

:-)
No, the first one is not a convoy and definitely not an exception. That is a regular setup for iron ore and coal trains to Kosice, Slovakia.
The train looks like this: http://www.trainfoto.eu/FOTO/SK_125.819 ... 4_0927.jpg
http://www.zelpage.cz/news_n/125819_srt_hornad.jpg
Pictures did not help, how about a video?

and the helper on the same train, with red lights.


It is foolish that you are trying to convince us that helpers do not exist or that the engines do not move from their depot alone to the first station of their train. Of course they do that. Every day. Or do you think that someone teleports them there? Please stop with all that nonsense.
I have many movies with helpers at the end of the train. With steam, diesels, and electrics.
That does not mean that I would add a helper unit to each train on my layout. That is my choice. But telling that they do not exist or are only "exception" on the real railway when the opposite is true, that is very foolish.
I am not going to waste more time on this.

User avatar
MacG
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:19 pm
Location: Dresden, Germany

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by MacG »

I don't know, if there a red light or lens at the prototypical Bobina. But make this at the model, attach "Zugschlussscheiben" - end of train plates.
Lok-n-Roll.de - we send worldwide :wink:

User avatar
LVG1
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Guben / Gubin; Germany? Poland?—No, Lusatia!
Contact:

Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by LVG1 »

krokodil wrote:In normal cases on the layouts we should avoid the exceptions and the irregularities of the prototype, (because there are many).
:hand: Stop! :hand:

That's your individual taste.
I know enough people who are interested in those irregularities and exceptions more than in regular operation. They specificly look for those exceptions to model them.
krokodil wrote:And how many modelers are running their locomotives on front of the trains with turned on red ligths. Is it prototypical? - no, it is against the rules!
You obviously know only a part of the rules. There have been some rules prescribing red lights on the front.
Those rules rarely apply but exist.
"Let's eat, grandpa."
Punctuation marks save lives!

Post Reply

Return to “MTB TT Scale Models”