MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

rdikken
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MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by rdikken »

MTB announced somewhere in February this year the Bobina and since the end of August it was on the market. I have got my 24 models last week before the fair in Leuna and all are sold. The next production batch is already sold out. The CSD 141 will be available around December / January 2015.

In November the CD version will be on de market. I hope to get a few of them.

Here are the pictures of the CSD 141.
Attachments
MTBTT141045a.jpg
MTBTT141045b.jpg
MTBTT141045c.jpg
MTBTT141045d.jpg

gerhard_k
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by gerhard_k »

rdikken wrote:MTB announced somewhere in February this year the Bobina and since the end of August it was on the market. I have got my 24 models last week before the fair in Leuna and all are sold. The next production batch is already sold out. The CSD 141 will be available around December / January 2015.

In November the CD version will be on de market. I hope to get a few of them.
While I have no way to know the accuracy of this model, it looks very nicely executed, especially for TT size.

But the realities of the model business always surprise me - "and all are sold. The next production batch is already sold out" - after the huge investment in the new model, is it so hard to guess the amount of likely sales? I would think that at least satisfying the initial market would present the best chance for optimizing the financial return. Mark, Rod - any insights?
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rdikken
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by rdikken »

Perhaps to add something.

This model is meant for the Czech market, the initial market, which means that the Czech dealers have priority. MTB will offer, I think, something on the fair of Leipzig. The model is not 100% accurate, what is new, :-). The main problem is the dummy pantograph, see also TT-Board. But still it is a nice model with a lot of detail.

I am not sure, I think Vita should sell more than 1000 to get his money back. The thing is a bit more complex than the SW1200.

j p
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

A picture of the prototype.
141.045.jpg
I will not comment on all the errors here. Many of them are quite disappointing because making the model correctly would not require any additional cost. If anyone is interested in CSD, feel free to pm.
I hope that future MTB's models of CSD 141 (or E499.1) would be with less errors.
This paint scheme was used in 1990-1992, only on one engine. It is a mix of old and new CSD standard paint schemes. (Some more CD engines got this paint scheme after 1993)
I'd chose a paint scheme for some broader time period. But this may be on purpose. Making first a non-typical paint scheme, people buy because they want to have their "bobina", then make a more typical paint scheme later and the same customers buy again...

Rich B
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by Rich B »

j p wrote:I will not comment on all the errors here. Many of them are quite disappointing because making the model correctly would not require any additional cost.
You're taking the time to make accusations, why not back them up?

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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

Rich B wrote:
j p wrote:I will not comment on all the errors here. Many of them are quite disappointing because making the model correctly would not require any additional cost.
You're taking the time to make accusations, why not back them up?
Well, you've asked for that...
141MTBvsCSD.jpg
141MTBvsCSD2.jpg
The biggest errors (for me) are in the paint: the border between the green and ivory is too high, the yellow stripe is not wide enough, the engine number and CSD plate on the side is too high. All that could be done correctly at no additional cost.
Then:
Shape - the model is 3 mm shorter than it is supposed to be, battery box has 2 pressings instead of 3.
Wheels - the model does not have spoked wheels
Lights - the model does not have red end lights
Pantographs - this has been mentioned already

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ConducTTor
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by ConducTTor »

Also engine room window closest to cab door is not correct.
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MacG
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by MacG »

ConducTTor wrote:Also engine room window closest to cab door is not correct.
Which one? The last window at the prototype is open and on the model in closed position. The window frames have the wrong color.
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j p
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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

MacG wrote:
ConducTTor wrote:Also engine room window closest to cab door is not correct.
Which one? The last window at the prototype is open and on the model in closed position. The window frames have the wrong color.
It seems to me that the engine room window closest to cab door is correct. What do you think is wrong with it?
The last window is not close to the cab door and its frame is painted wrong. The prototype has only one cab door on each side.

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Re: MTB CSD 141, the Bobina

Post by j p »

krokodil wrote:
j p wrote: Lights - the model does not have red end lights
Finaly the first manufacturer of the latest time, who recognized that the red lights are very unprototypical. These locomotives were never used for push-pull traffic and in normal ( daily) operation the red lights on the locomotive are always dark. In regular train service the train is behind the loco and no red light on the machine, in shifting white lights are on both ends.
Red lights are mostly used for service runs only - few locomotives coupled together. How many such applications are prototypical on normal layouts?
I do not agree with you.
1st: These locomotives were used in a sort of "push-pull" commuter traffic around Prague with double-deckers when CSD (and CD) did not have enough EMUs available. The schedule was made for EMUs and such a train did not have enough time at the end stations to get the engine to the other end. So they had to run with one engine at each end because CSD did not have any cars with control cab. The engine at the end of the train had red end lights turned on, of course.
http://www.zelpage.cz/fotogalerie/big/141153.jpg (both are 141, although the first one, 141 001-8, looks like class 140)

2nd: The red lights unprototypical? No way! Most locomotives in Europe have red end lights, including all CSD engines. (even the little German Köf which we have in the club can change its lights to red).
It is unprototypical to have the red end lights turned on when the engine pulls a train. In general, the red end lights are used in daily operation, of course. Every time the engine is at the end of a train, the red end lights have to be turned on. Either when it is used as a helper (pusher) unit, or when running solo. Getting back to the depot is also a part of the regular service. Or when the last station of one train is not the same as the first station of the next train for that particular engine.
Yes, it is unprototypical to use red end lights which are always on. But the technology has changed and we have the possibility to turn on/off many functions of the engine by DCC. Therefore it should be possible also on this model - simply because all the competitors have it.

The issue with the red end lights does not matter for me, I would not use them anyway. The list of errors would not be complete without it though.
I can accept all the errors except for the paint (but I am not happy for them) and I will buy this model despite of the errors - as soon as it comes in a paint version which I can use. I wished MTB made models without any significant errors. It would be better for both the manufacturer and the customers.

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