Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

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Arseny
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Novosibirsk, Kurgan or Vladivostok are too far from me...
Sorry, but I do not have the info about all brand trains in USSR and Russia in 1960s-2013 ! :?
All I can say - usually standard (non-brand) cars were green. But I can't guarantee you that some car somewhere in Siberia couldn't be blue or red even if it was not in use in brand trains...

As for white, blue and red car - it seems to be "Russia" train (Moscow - Vladivostok). But maybe some railroad painted some usual train, or some "local" Siberian brand train in white-blue-red colors, for example in honour of some occasion or holiday...
But all I can say - it must be post-Soviet era (1991-...). In the USSR red-white-blue flag was practically criminal (with the exception of the historical discussions and books about Tsarist Russian Empire), it was associated with traitor general Vlasov, some anti-Soviet, etc. etc.

What type of car do you talking about?
There were 3 main types of steel passenger cars in the USSR:
- RIC (WLABm) - for international trains
- Ammendorf type
- Tver-type (built by the carbuilding plant in the city of Tver, former Kalinin)

There were wery few amout of Polish, Hungarian and Yugoslavian cars, so we can to exclude them from the consideration.

There were 4 main types of long-distance passenger cars in Russia:
- "Sleeper Car" (SV, СВ in Russian) - high-class sleeper, divided into roomettes, each roomette was for 2 persons;
- "Roomette car" - sleeper, divided into roomettes, each roomette was for 4 persons (2-levels);
- "Platz-Kart car" - sleeper; it was divided into sections, but each section was not isolated, it did not have any door and even 4th wall. Also there were additional, "side" places along the passage
0_48cdb_70c73050_XL.jpg
:lol:

- "Coach", "Sitting car" - no sleeping places, only chairs. Not for the too long-distance trains, of course. But some day trains used coaches, for example, "Aurora" train (Saint-Petersburg - Moscow)

Ammendorf plant built Roomette sleepers only! (as I know). It did not built "Platz-Kart" cars.
"Platz-Kart" cars were built by Tver carbuilding plant in Russia.
They looked like Ammendorf ones, but they had more ribs:
image031.jpg
Maybe you mean this type of car?..

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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by LVG1 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:05 pm

Arseny wrote:As for white, blue and red car - it seems to be "Russia" train (Moscow - Vladivostok).
The pictures were taken at the route of this train. So it's very probable.
But I thought, it was kind of standard livery because for at least 15 years it has been the usual livery of the trains between Moscow and Berlin.
Arseny wrote:What type of car do you talking about?
There were 3 main types of steel passenger cars in the USSR:
- RIC (WLABm) - for international trains
- Ammendorf type
- Tver-type (built by the carbuilding plant in the city of Tver, former Kalinin)
I don't mean RIC cars and I don't mean Ammendorf-made cars.
Arseny wrote:There were wery few amout of Polish, Hungarian and Yugoslavian cars, so we can to exclude them from the consideration.
I know that Hungary delivered DMU's (type Д1 [D1]) to the Soviet Union. Did they also deliver other cars?
And what kind of cars were delivered from Poland and Yugoslavia?
Arseny wrote:There were 4 main types of long-distance passenger cars in Russia:
- "Sleeper Car" (SV, СВ in Russian) - high-class sleeper, divided into roomettes, each roomette was for 2 persons;
- "Roomette car" - sleeper, divided into roomettes, each roomette was for 4 persons (2-levels);
- "Platz-Kart car" - sleeper; it was divided into sections, but each section was not isolated, it did not have any door and even 4th wall. Also there were additional, "side" places along the passage

Ammendorf plant built Roomette sleepers only! (as I know). It did not built "Platz-Kart" cars.
"Platz-Kart" cars were built by Tver carbuilding plant in Russia.
"Sleeper cars" for Soviet Union were also made in GDR. But I don't know at which plant. And I don't know where my book is which can tell something about the amount (and possibly also about the plant).
"Roomette cars" were by far the most cars which were made here for Soviet Union.
"Platz-Kart cars" (the designation is derived from German) were also made in GDR, but only in the late 1940'ies and early 1950'ies, as far as I know.
Arseny wrote:They looked like Ammendorf ones, but they had more ribs:

Maybe you mean this type of car?..
Probably yes, I'm not sure. I'ld have to compare it with the images in my book. But I'ld have to almost empty my cupboard to get to the book again.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:24 pm

LVG1 wrote:
Arseny wrote:There were wery few amout of Polish, Hungarian and Yugoslavian cars, so we can to exclude them from the consideration.
I know that Hungary delivered DMU's (type Д1 [D1]) to the Soviet Union. Did they also deliver other cars?
And what kind of cars were delivered from Poland and Yugoslavia?
Sorry, I have very few amont of information about it.
As I know, they were sleepers. Polish ones did not have ribs.

Concerning Hungary - they delivered some switchers also (VME-1 diesel)
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%9C%D0%AD1

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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:24 am

Christtking wrote:Some other Russian car "EXPRESS"? (not sure if it is sleeping ,restaurant or kushet).
"Express" is/was a brand train Saint-Petersburg - Moscow; "substitute" for the "Red Express" train

"Express" includes only sleeper cars (and 1 diner car)

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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:25 am

BTW: list of the RZhD's brand trains:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0% ... 8.D1.8F.29

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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by LVG1 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:48 am

@ Christtking:

All cars in your pictures were made in GDR.
RIC sleepers (with low edge of the roof), Chinese sleepers and dining cars were made in Görlitz. The other sleeping cars were made in Ammendorf.

By the way:
It's absolutely not neccessary to create another new answer for each image. You can upload all images into one answer.


@Arseny:

Thank you very much for this:
Arseny wrote:BTW: list of the RZhD's brand trains:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0% ... 8.D1.8F.29
Have you seen that the car shown in this article is not GDR-made, too?

Image
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:59 am

LVG1 wrote:Thank you very much for this:
Arseny wrote:BTW: list of the RZhD's brand trains:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0% ... 8.D1.8F.29
It didn't need great efforts from me :)
If you need to translate some brand names, feel free to ask.
LVG1 wrote: Have you seen that the car shown in this article is not GDR-made, too?

Image
Yes, it looks like Tver-built.
Tver carbuilding plant is "in business" until today, it produce "roomette" sleepers too, since 1990s or early 2000s.

It is modern photo. The "Express" train is painted blue since 2008.
Before 2008 it was red, identical with "Red Arrow".

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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by LVG1 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:27 pm

Arseny wrote:If you need to translate some brand names, feel free to ask.
If I ask you, my neighbor at home in Guben (at the moment I'm in Dresden) will be annoyed because I don't ask him. :wink:
I don't know, which Russian city he is from. His wife is from Novosibirsk.

But to be serious:
I don't like to translate names. To me it feels kind of impolite.
I'm studying Cartography. And also in cartography the tendency is towards using the original geographical names and not the names from other languages anymore.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by LVG1 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:01 pm

By the way:
Arseny wrote:As I know, they were sleepers. Polish ones did not have ribs.
I didn't know that sleepers were made in Poland at all. Polish Railroads purchased 306 sleepers (all with additional broad gauge trucks for gauge changing) from GDR—more than any other standard gauge railroad—and further ones from Yugoslavia (I think 30). So actually, there was no neccessity to care about self-made sleepers in Poland.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Post by Arseny » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:15 pm

LVG1 wrote:I don't like to translate names. To me it feels kind of impolite.
I'm studying Cartography. And also in cartography the tendency is towards using the original geographical names and not the names from other languages anymore.
Some of them are not geographical names and have some sence. For example, "Smena". Or "Юность" ("Yunost") - "Youth", etc.
Or "Sapsan" - it means "Peregrine Falcon".

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