Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

These are prototypes which either exist as TT scale models or can be modeled from existing models.
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CFRiad
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by CFRiad »

@Christtking. The photos you published are, from top to bottom:
  • - Series 16-17 double decker 4-car, permanently coupled units from the early '70, made in GDR. They had three 2nd class cars, one 1st class car and had no control cab. They originally came painted in dark green with grey roofs. Your photo shows the early 90's livery. Tillig catalogue number 13730+13740 is an excellent replica.
    - Series 26-17 double decker 4-car, permanently coupled units from the late '70, made in Romania under German licence. They have only 2nd class cars and no control cab. The roof is not sloped at the ends, otherwise they looked a lot like the 16-17 series.
    - Series 26-26 double decker car from the 80's, made in the GDR. CFR imported 1st and 2nd class cars. None had control cabs. The cars were individual units allowing coupling at will with other types of cars. They came in the light blue/grey roof livery. Tillig catalogue number 13799 is a decent stand-in. The middle, two-floor section of the German car is longer, making the end section shorter than on the CFR cars.
All these cars serviced high-traffic commuter lines around large industrial centres. Early morning and late afternoon trains on some of these lines were composed of up to 3 units of the 16-17 or 26-17 along with a mail/baggage van.
Last edited by CFRiad on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:04 am, edited 6 times in total.

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CFRiad
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by CFRiad »

@LVG1. As you know, UIC prescribes uniform ways for all railways to designate vehicle types using letters and vehicle serials using numbers. E.g. a first and second class sleeper car would be designated as WLABmee ("WL" for sleeper, "AB" for 1/2 class, "m" for I-can't-remember, "ee" for multi voltage electric heating. Same car would get the 71-31 series as the 5th to 8th digit of their vehicle registration number ("7" for 1/2 class sleeper, "1" for 11 compartments, "31" for 140 km/h max speed and electric-only heating. See photo below.

That being said, the 16-17/26-17 cars were not UIC compliant and were meant for domestic service only. I don't think UIC had a letter designation for double-decker cars back in the 70's. CFR designated them as "TE". The letter designation appeared on the side of the car. In this photo you can see the "a" car of the four-car unit. The cars in the unit were designated as a-c-d-b, with "a" and "b" being the end cars.

Thanks for the hints on how to upload photos. Now I have to figure out how to resize them. :)
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Last edited by CFRiad on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:28 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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CFRiad
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by CFRiad »

@Christtking is correct. No CFR locomotive types allowed remote control. Since regulations do not allow driving from anywhere but the head of the train and a trailing engine could not be controlled from a control cabin or a head engine, push-pull operation was out of question.

At each change of direction the locomotives had to go around. Sometimes, to speed up changes of train direction a new locomotive stood ready to be attached at the new train head as soon as the train pulled into the station.

When a train needed multiple locomotives, each had its own crew. All locomotives but the one at the head had the brake control valved locked out, allowing only the head driver to control the brakes. The drivers synchronized the throttle by speaking over radio. As you see, efficiency was lacking a bit.

j p
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by j p »

CFRiad wrote: - Series 26-26 double decker car from the 80's, made in the GDR. CFR imported 1st and 2nd class cars. None had control cabs. The cars were individual units allowing coupling at will with other types of cars. They came in the light blue/grey roof livery. Tillig catalogue number 13799 is a decent stand-in. The middle, two-floor section of the German car is longer, making the end section shorter than on the CFR cars.[/list]
I don't think so. Tillig's car is something completely different. At least count the windows...
This car does not need any stand-in, it is Kuehn 41120 (and similar), the only difference is the paint. Kuehn makes several DR versions of this car, then also CD, CSD, and PKP.

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CFRiad
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by CFRiad »

j p wrote:
CFRiad wrote: - Series 26-26 double decker car from the 80's, made in the GDR. CFR imported 1st and 2nd class cars. None had control cabs. The cars were individual units allowing coupling at will with other types of cars. They came in the light blue/grey roof livery. Tillig catalogue number 13799 is a decent stand-in. The middle, two-floor section of the German car is longer, making the end section shorter than on the CFR cars.[/list]
I don't think so. Tillig's car is something completely different. At least count the windows...
This car does not need any stand-in, it is Kuehn 41120 (and similar), the only difference is the paint. Kuehn makes several DR versions of this car, then also CD, CSD, and PKP.
Thanks @j p. You are correct, Kuehn 41120 is the one. Just needs some paint.

Christtking

Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by Christtking »

@CFRiad: I am still waiting for those photos :pray: :crazy: :thumbup: please.


Maybe if we gather enough info we should send some requests to mister KUEHN :wink:
Oh! Before I forget!, (off subject) by the way the freelance model Tillig art.# 13799, it was built in small quantities. I've tried 3 different shops in Germany and none of them could get it dirrectly from Tillig. No big deal!

Christtking

Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by Christtking »

@CFRiad: I am not sure if anyone did this already, but anyways I would like to welcome you to the forum! I apologise to the other members I'm doing this in the wrong thread. I do not know where the "Welcome aboard!" link is located! :? :thumbup:

Christtking

Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by Christtking »

Here is the one that started it all (East German version)
Here is the one that started it all (East German version)

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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by LVG1 »

krokodil wrote:I never saw any single frame double deckers in CSD nor in PKP livery.
ČSD received only 50 articulated double-decker trains and 50 single double-decker coaches. Considering the size of the Czechoslovakian railroad network, they've been a true rarity. I also have seen only few photos of them.
But PKP got lots of them. They got 483 articulated trains (plus 57 additional end segments for replacement) and 160 single double-decker coaches. Double-deck vehicles are omnipresent on most Polish mainlines and even on some branch lines.
When I was in Frankfurt upon Oder for the last time, the regional trains between Frankfurt and Poznań consisted of those single double-decker coaches.
krokodil wrote:Do you have some photis from those coaches?
I think, this is the wrong place for non-Romanian prototypes. But I'm searching for pictures and will post them in their respective threads.
Christtking wrote:If may I add. I think the Roumanian built compositions (under licence) the 4 rack always coupled together double deckers were a little different than the East German ones. In Roumania the practice of push trains was not allowed, only when the train was pushed from the depot to the main station (for example in Bucharest Nord=main terminal:kind of like Franfurt auf Main), so when the train (any type of train) was ready to leave for its destination the loco was always ready in the front. When the trains would arrive at their final destination the loco would pull all the way close to the buffers. We got the idea. Some of the European guys know what I am talking about. If the train had to continue its route to another destination, the loco that pulled the train will have to be uncoupled and would remain in that position until another loco will be coupled at the other end of the train (in the front again) for pull service (always). After the train will pull out to its next destination, then the original loco will pull out to go to the shop for maintenance or for its next duty in order to clear the track for another train to come in. So in reality the double decker (type TE) trains were never required to have control cabs, no use for them.
Why do you think, this was a difference?
Also in GDR push-pull trains were relatively rare. They were almost only used as suburban trains and on few regional connections from and to agglomerations. But on the major part of GDR's railroad network, you never saw any cab cars.
So, also Deutsche Reichsbahn mainly got cars and trains without cabs. And they were identical to those delivered to Romania.

By the way:
Deutsche Reichsbahn was the only customer ordering cab cars from GDR's industry. There was not even a single cab car exported.
Christtking wrote:Another thing about those 4 unit double decker coaches if I remember correctly both end walls were extended straight even with the roof (no slope/ special design), same as the design of GLIEDERZUG. The gangways (accordion style made of rigid rubber) were not all the way up extended to the roof like the East German ones. Where the coach's straight walls would end that's where the "burduf" (accordion gangway) will end also, straight (flat) shape on the roof. There were end walls of each single coach on top sections were the rubber gangway was not present (extended) like found in the East German version (s).
Who says that cars have to be unchanged for their entire lives? Poland also got all their articulated trains with sloped roof ends. But now most of these trains have vertical roof ends. They have simply been altered.
I've heard that very few of GDR's articulated trains also got those vertical ends, eventually. But I don't know if it's true.
CFRiad wrote:@LVG1. As you know, UIC prescribes uniform ways for all railways to designate vehicle types using letters and vehicle serials using numbers. E.g. a first and second class sleeper car would be designated as WLABmee ("WL" for sleeper, "AB" for 1/2 class, "m" for I-can't-remember, "ee" for multi voltage electric heating. Same car would get the 71-31 series as the 5th to 8th digit of their vehicle registration number ("7" for 1/2 class sleeper, "1" for 11 compartments, "31" for 140 km/h max speed and electric-only heating.
Yes, I know of these UIC standards. But the way you describe it could be misleading.
These standards shall improve the international traffic. So, narrow-gauge vehicles are excluded from these standards. The letter code does not even incorporate cabeese and MOW vehicles because they usually don't leave their home rails.
The number scheme is relatively explicit—though partially differently interpreted—, while the letter code is open to extensions.
The letter code for freight cars is relatively comprehensive. So only few nations make use of these extensions. Germany, for instance, uses both additional small letters behind a dash and superscript three-digit numbers.
But the UIC standard for passenger cars only includes the main classification—the capital letters and the small "c" for couchette coaches. All other small letters are individually defined by the respective nations. Several nations have even defined additional letters for the main classification. So, for example, Germany adds an additional "D" in front of the UIC-standardized main classification to mark double-deck vehicles.

Regarding your images, only "WLAB" is UIC-standardized. "mee" and "TE25a" are individually defined by CFR.
CFRiad wrote:That being said, the 16-17/26-17 cars were not UIC compliant and were meant for domestic service only. I don't think UIC had a letter designation for double-decker cars back in the 70's.
Wrong!
These trains were UIC-compliant. And they were included by UIC's standards.

But as far as I know, CFR generally omited the letter codes on their passenger cars in the 1970's and 1980's, didn't they?
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CFRiad
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Re: Romania - Caile Ferate Romane

Post by CFRiad »

Christtking wrote:@CFRiad: I am still waiting for those photos.
Check these out:

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