Possible new US-based TT manufacturer of American prototypes

[Jim King]

Without starting a drawn out discussion that typically wanders off topic before a consensus is reached, if a consensus IS possible, please give this some thought.

I have produced several HO and S scale freight car resin kits since the early 2000s. While the Solidworks files are still usable and can be updated with better detail discovered after the kit was put into production, the primary advantage to CAD is the scaling feature. I have upscaled HO to S which gets me about 80% "there". Going down from HO to TT would present similar problems because some features, like side posts and underframe crossmembers require making them oversize in HO before downscaling to "just right" in TT. That's my problem, not yours.

I am proposing producing a line of American prototype freight cars, maybe a caboose, using a combination of 3D printing on a Form3 printer (hi rez SLA system) and urethane castings. Minor details would be wire and decals. Grab irons, ladders, doors, door tracks, and tackboards would part of the body printing or casting, not separate parts you'd glue on. This method keeps kit cost lower. Trucks would be single 3D printed with separate wheelsets. Couplers to be determined.

What I want from y'all is ideas for such products (give me specifics, like "PS-1 40 ft box with 7 foot door"). Remember: since TT is so small in the US with many splintered factions based on era, steam or diesel or electric, shortline, mainline, freight, passenger, narrow gauge, etc., you have to narrow your interests so that it becomes clear(er) the top 1-10 desired products. I don't want to produce steam engines but will consider diesel if the demand is apparent.

I don't promise to satisfy everyone's wish-list but I'd like to start somewhere. Between my existing CAD files, numerous car builder cyclopedias, RPC, thousands of photos, and a direct link to Pullman-Standard photos and drawings, surely a few common denominators will settle out.

I have also produced (5) S scale freight car trucks and (4) S scale diesel sideframe kits that drop over the Stanton gearbox. If a similar style gearbox exists in TT and can be purchased commonly, that may be the ticket. If such an animal doesn't exist, maybe I'll design one.

To make this posting worthwhile, YOU, the member, must reply to voice your desire. Don't offer a suggestion that's so "out there" and unique that only you want it produced 'cause that won't happen. Keep your desires and comments reasonable. My goal is to gather a database of like-minded TT modelers WHO WILL PURCHASE KITS, NOT JUST "SAY" THEY WILL THEN NEVER DO. Such an attitude does nothing positive for the project or toward advancing the scale. Some examples are:

40 ft boxcars (what type? Milwaukee ribside? PS-1?)
50 ft boxcars (Southern waffle and non waffle versions? PS-1?)
Gons
Mechanical reefers
Hoppers
Tanks
Flats
Powered trucks and mechanisms to fit new diesel shells?
Switchers? (I have produced 2 styles of GE 44-tonner and 70-tonner and 1 style of the FM H10-44, all in S)

I always keep track of interested parties and their favorite wish-list items on a spreadsheet with email address. When you reply to my post, please include your full name and email addy so I can create the spreadsheet. That way I have everyone's name in 1 place and can quickly sort subjects to determine which one is #1, 2, 3, so on.

Please visit my web site below to see currently available products. All car kits are limited run, just as any TT offerings will be, so much of what I've produced in the past is not shown. If you have an idea for a car that's very similar to a once offered kit, I'll send a photo of it for further discussion.

Lastly, I model in On30 and produce resin kits in HO, S, and O. I have no modeling interest in TT ... this "tire kicking" exercise is to determine if there is a sufficient, however small, interest in American TT to warrant more effort. I hope yes, but y'all will determine such.

Jim King
jimking3@charter.net
(828) 777-5619 if you want to discuss instead of email
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

[RodTT]

Just a general comment (I probably wouldn't be in the market for much if anything unless it were a couple of 50ft post-roofwalk era boxcars of some kind) - it would be an idea to make sure nothing you produce overlaps with the plans of Zeuke and Lok-n-Roll. Otherwise I think this is a very encouraging move and hope there are enough takers to make it succeed.

[TheKnighTT]

To answer the obvious question emanating from Rod´s post: Zeuke TT will manufacture a whole range of PS box cars in 40' and 50'. Lok´n Roll is working on a GP30. I don´t know what they´re up to in regards to railroad cars.

I would favor:

• a mill gondola with slopes on the sides

• a generic enough steel caboose with off-center cupola

• wooden reefers

• other head ends to combine with the Gold Coast box cars or scratch builds

Lok´n Roll produces powered chassis for GP38, Gp9 and F3 ->https://www.lok-n-roll.de/produkt-kateg ... 52f3c22ed6

I shall email you my contact dates, I don´t want them all out on the internet.
Thank you for your interest and offer to produce something for TT. And take notice, I think there are about as many modellers modelling NA TT in Europe as there are in North America.

[MNS_fan]

Just a general comment (I probably wouldn't be in the market for much if anything unless it were a couple of 50ft post-roofwalk era boxcars of some kind) - it would be an idea to make sure nothing you produce overlaps with the plans of Zeuke and Lok-n-Roll. Otherwise I think this is a very encouraging move and hope there are enough takers to make it succeed.

I understand your sentiments, but wouldn't more than one manufacturer producing the same item keep prices low? Add in the fact that Jim lives in US which is a huge plus me also as i would not have to pay high international shipping prices for Zueke or lok-n-roll products.

[Marquette]

My suggestions would be things that are distinctive and/or un(der)represented in existing models: any earlier PFE mechanical reefer from the 1960s would be high on my list of things to get... as far as boxcars go, MILW ribside and PRR X31 would be welcome.

I'd certainly consider buying other things if they're suitable for a late 1960s west coast setting, but the above are the most important on my wishlist. Not after a caboose now as I've already got an SP caboose in progress from an existing etch kit.

[Jim King]

The only option when selecting a potential TT product is if I have CAD files in another scale, likely HO since that's the easiest to downsize. I did downsize the SOU waffle box mentioned in the next paragraph a few years ago to see **IF** it could be done with minimal effort and was pleased to see that it could. Now with my Form3 printing system, it's possible to print a single body for rubber mold pattern instead of having to make flat patterns, assemble into a box, etc. before making urethane castings. The amount of R&D required to create a new product cannot be justified in TT, at least, not by me. If someone has CAD files that can be imported to generate 3D printed parts, please contact me off-list.

I have HO CAD files for a 41' low side steel gon suitable for Southern and, with a few tweaks to the quantity of ribs and rivets, can make a decent stand in for N&W, ACL, SAL, and others. Other CAD files I've generated for HO models are 52'6" PS gon built for the Southern with very similar features for D&RGW, a PRR X29 box, Southern 50" waffle side box (and can make non-waffle version), Southern 50' 12-post box (currently in production), B&O M53 wagontop box, SAL B7 "turtleback roof" box, Tennessee Central "PS-0" box in 2 versions (PS-0 is an incorrect tag as PS never called their cars that but PS-0 seems to have stuck with modelers over the years), and a few others. I have S scale CAD files for a highly popular AAR 70-ton 53'6" flat originally bought by 11 roads, heavily modified by those roads in the 50s and 60s, some with bulkheads or piggyback service, and many sold to secondary roads as flat car usage shrunk. No reefers, hoppers, tank cars, or cabooses. Sorry.

I would be willing to test the TT waters by downsizing my S scale roller bearing trucks if there is a demand and I can source suitable wheelsets. My S trucks have rotating end caps, which has been successfully modeled in HO by Kato and Tangent, but a TT version would have fixed caps. Trucks would be 3D printed, too.

An "acceptable" retail price is also an unknown to me. I know what resin kits, including decals, couplers, and trucks, will retail for in HO, S, and O, but TT is a mystery since I have no experience in this market. I see injection molded kits of a 70-ton 3-bay offset side hopper retailing for $24.95 less t&c, maybe decals included. My kits, with or without t&c, will retail for higher due to the re-design, which is minimal if downsized from HO, and production costs (labor and material) being greater. Can someone enlighten me as to other resin kits offered within the past 10 years, prices, prototype?

[j p]

Just a general comment (I probably wouldn't be in the market for much if anything unless it were a couple of 50ft post-roofwalk era boxcars of some kind) - it would be an idea to make sure nothing you produce overlaps with the plans of Zeuke and Lok-n-Roll. Otherwise I think this is a very encouraging move and hope there are enough takers to make it succeed.

I understand your sentiments, but wouldn't more than one manufacturer producing the same item keep prices low? Add in the fact that Jim lives in US which is a huge plus me also as i would not have to pay high international shipping prices for Zueke or lok-n-roll products.

Nope. That does not work in NA-TT. The prices would not get lower, but both manufacturers would be out of TT-scale business soon if it continues. The market is not big enough for that kind of games. There are plenty of possible models which were never been made in TT scale.
The market is small, so why not to take 100% of it with a completely new model? I don't see any advantage in addressing only 40-50% of the tiny market because you make the same model as another manufacturer.

I would favor:

• a mill gondola with slopes on the sides

• a generic enough steel caboose with off-center cupola

• wooden reefers

• other head ends to combine with the Gold Coast box cars or scratch builds

Not any wooden reefer though, it is better to make a different one than what Bill Dixon made.

My suggestions would be things that are distinctive and/or un(der)represented in existing models: any earlier PFE mechanical reefer from the 1960s would be high on my list of things to get... as far as boxcars go, MILW ribside and PRR X31 would be welcome.

I'd certainly consider buying other things if they're suitable for a late 1960s west coast setting, but the above are the most important on my wishlist. Not after a caboose now as I've already got an SP caboose in progress from an existing etch kit.

PRR X31 for me too please!

[Marquette]

B&O M53 wagontop box, SAL B7 "turtleback roof" box

These would both have my attention - especially the latter, as I have a soft spot for the Seaboard.

[j p]

I would be willing to test the TT waters by downsizing my S scale roller bearing trucks if there is a demand and I can source suitable wheelsets. My S trucks have rotating end caps, which has been successfully modeled in HO by Kato and Tangent, but a TT version would have fixed caps. Trucks would be 3D printed, too.

Roller bearing trucks with rotating caps are/were available in TT from Michael / Art & Detail.
Roller bearing trucks wih fixed caps are available from Ian / TiTTan Models.
Wheelsets are available from Veikko Müller https://www.muellerradsatz.de/, both 33" and 36", NEM and NMRA RP25. But those are not suitable for the rotating caps. He can probably make wheelsets with different axle ends if there is a demand for the roller bearing trucks with rotating caps.

[Bigelov]

I also use wheelsets from Muller and bogies from TiTTan Models. So if they suit your kits that is a bonus :) As for models, I would prefer 60's onwards tending towards BN and predecessors.

From your list above: what is the most common, most widespread, longest lived in most liveries that isn't currently available in TT? As for how many I would buy: two to three models. Rarely more. For instance, I got two of the recent Leadville Designs CB&Q stock car that was re-scaled for us (thanks to Ian of TiTTan Models!). I have a backlog of models to finish and prep for service as well as a bunch that I haven't bought but are on my list. I do have diverse interest, not all of them in North America.