Which 50ft boxcar?

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MacG
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by MacG »

I count 36 models of Gold Coast Steel freight cars. How many models of each type were made, knows only Felix. The founder of the Gold Coast Railway Co. I estimate 50 to 200 cars.

A partially flat kit is better for the different sides (type and number of doors).
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rdikken
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by rdikken »

A kit will consist of a house, bottom, truck and wheels. It will not be a flat kit with doors, sides, roof, etc. That is is a fact.

Back to the CG box car quantities. Bill Dixon mentioned 44 RTR box cars and 8 to assemble pre-printed kits. In total 52 box cars. If the minimal production quantity was 50 pcs. Than the total production quantity was around 2600 till 3000 pcs. (There are also some black undecorated kits.)

If the PS1 box car has more details in more variants than the Gold Coast cars we may expect the same sales quantity in 10 years.

Is that a correct assumption?

Taxari
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by Taxari »

If we get one or two new locomotives, you maybe will sell your batch. If not, no chance.

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MacG
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by MacG »

Taxari wrote:If we get one or two new locomotives, you maybe will sell your batch. If not, no chance.
This is a statement that I have to agree in part. Because currently, I would like to have a few boxcars of the 60s more.

@rdikken: I don't believe that. There are only 36 steel boxcars with the 8 pre-printed kits. More than that were wooden boxcars. The sum of all models from GC (US) is 52. Here is the list. You can't conclude from the numbers of selling wooden boxcars on the sales of more modern cars. The amounts of un-decorated kits are unknown to me. Without these, I come to 1800 pieces. The assumed 2000 pcs is a fitting estimate. Also when currently not all RTR-models are sold out.
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rdikken
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by rdikken »

Analysing a lot of PS1 cars, the Hawkins roster, books, railroad magazines, etc, the only way going forward is to keep things simple and to limit the possibilities by making choices. Due to the Corona virus, this year is gone, but perhaps next year. But first some important starting points:
1) the investment for PS1 box cars is only possible when we also provide new locomotives
2) there is a synergy in producing the 40 ft and the 50 ft PS1 box car in one mold system, with the following limited configurations:
- 40 ft PS1 box car with 8 ft doors, Youngstown, Standard Pullman or Superior, tabbed sill and riveted or welded end side
- 50 ft PS1 box car with 8 ft doors, Youngstown, Standard Pullman or Superior, tabbed sill and welded end side
- 50 ft PS1 box car with 15 ft doors, 7 + 8 Youngstown, Standard Pullman or Superior, fishbelly sill and welded end side
The molds for the 8 ft doors from the 40 ft box cars are also used with 50 ft box car.

Further limitations:
Only cars younger then 1950, meaning no riveted sides and only enlarged roof panels. No 6, 7, 9 or 10 ft door configurations. This also means that we are not able to create every layout for all railroad companies which used the PS1 box car. But here an overview of the railroad companies we can do:
B&O, C&EI, C&O, CG, CNJ, CNW, D&H, D&RGW, DTI, ERIE, GM&O, GN, GTW, KCS, L&N, MP, N&W, NYC, PRR, RI, SAL, SLSF, SOU, SSW, UP, USAFX, USAX, USN, VGN and WP

Why not the 6 foot door car configuration? Because it would be an extra cost element, which cannot be used with the 50 ft box car. And we simply cannot produce all variations. But this also means no CP or CN box cars.

But still due the Corona virus, the future is unclear.

Please give me your thoughts.

Rob

areibel
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by areibel »

Hi Rob,
I think your list looks good. One thing to remember in U.S. railroads, you would not see a train with all the boxcars from one railroad. One email list I'm on for the Erie Lackawanna (and also included the Erie and the DL&W) they did a study of a large number of consist sheets, the list given to the conductor of what cars will be in his train. On average for an EL train there would be 25-30 % of the cars from the EL. Some might still be painted Erie or Delaware Lackawanna and Western (they had boxcars that survived in original paint until the Conrail era) but they were all counted as Erie Lackawanna cars.
That is an average, some trains within the system could be up to 60% EL, but on longer trains (say from NY to Chicago) it might be less than 20%, so more roadnames even on the same style car is a good thing!

The locomotives will be the hard part. Would Vita think of doing a chassis kit for the locomotive shells on Shapeways? It looks like Jes Leyva removed some of the ones he had, he could probably put them back up. Two or three chassis kits could do several different locomotives, just provide a flat chassis plate with the trucks and drive (and if the modeler could modify the wheelbase you could probably do it with two kits- a 4 axle and 6 axle). He has the 4 axle Bloomberg trucks already, a six axle would cover most of the larger locomotives using the Tillig
6 axle bogies.

rdikken
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by rdikken »

Yes, locomotives are the hard part. I can't talk about how that would look like.

But to add more details to the PS1 box cars.
Per railroad company there will be more cars in different door variations and of course in different layouts. Take Rock Island as an example, there could be 40 ft box car with a 8 ft Youngstown door and a Pullman Standard door in the brown colour variation, but also in the light blue. And every layout variation can have several car numbers. But also a car number can have different print layouts. A car painted in 1956 can have a different layout compared with the same car in 1965. Variations are enormous!

But whatever happens, the serie has to be small, per car number / printout, max 50 pcs.

Again take the 40 ft RI box car for an example:
Car number 27510 and 27788, brown with Pullman Standard doors, car number 27570, brown with Youngstown door and car numbers 506006 and 506019, light blue with 6-panel Superior doors, max 40pcs per brown car and max 50 pcs per light blue car, makes 220 pcs in total.

Small series only.

Perhaps important to mention, from 95% to be produced cars, I have real pictures.

Ciao,
Rob

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MacG
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by MacG »

This sounds like a good plan. But please don't limit the series of a paint scheme by one car number. I think you know, that then you would have a long time the one car number in stock. Without a car number, a customer would perhaps buy more than one freight car with the same paint scheme.

Vita has two very good American 4-axle trucks. This he can offer as a spare part or use them for a new locomotive or chassis.
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rdikken
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by rdikken »

Perhaps one short addition, again as an example the RI 40ft box cars:

The light blue ones in the serie 506000 till 506049, will be produced with the max quantity of 50 pcs per car number. If these sell, another 2 brown cars, 40 pcs per car number will be printed. If these sell the last will be printed.

All the planned cars will not be printed at once, because I never know what you really want. If things do not sell, I will stop further printing and go to the next railroad company.

Ciao,
Rob

Bill Dixon
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Re: Which 50ft boxcar?

Post by Bill Dixon »

Hi Rob

Good thoughts on PS1 Box Cars.

The Corona disaster is going to be with us for at least few more months so yeah, 2020 is going to be a lost year.
I am starting to wonder about a fall show season.
It has just started to hit the US. AS of today the US has the largest number of cases of any country in the world, a big jump from yesterday, so it's going to get bad there.

However I digress.

PS-1 box cars, 40' and 50' YES!.
No CPR or CNR, - I'll survive. I can paint up a foobie myself if i really have to have one.
Small runs of 40 or 50. If that is all the market will take, so be it. I had hoped that there would be more of us to buy these models but it looks like we have a lot of lurkers, not modellers.

New locomotives - YES PLEASE
In other threads we had discussed what model to build. I think we settled on a GP38-2, but i wouldn't say no to a GP35. However if we are looking for something a bit larger, an SD40-2 would be great. Every major railroad in North America had them. Lost of room for a good sized motor, and DCC and sound if you so wished.

So new PS-1 Box Cars - I'm in. I'll buy a fleet to supplement the North American equipment I currently have.
A new Locomotive to replace our SW1200s - I in. I need at least a handful, if not more. If it is only one road number per railroad then I will learn how to re letter models.

Please, just don't release them all at once. My pocket book is in much better shape that it has been for the last decade, but there are limits.

With a new locomotive we are going to need cabooses.
Perhaps you should consider tooling a wide vision caboose.
When you release a new locomotive road name, it would come with a caboose. A complete train. Just add cars to make it longer. Just a thought.

Bill Dixon

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