Star Line Models Boxcars

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CSD
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by CSD » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:27 pm

scaro wrote:... and the only time you are likely to see an underframe with any clarity, its appearance is immediately followed up with the even less prototypical appearance of a giant hand from the sky to put the wagon back on the track.
That's good! Thanks for starting my day with a laugh.
Mark
//S

ctxmf74
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by ctxmf74 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:29 pm

"The kits did come with underframes."
Yeah, That's how I knew my warped car was a Starline, the frame was marked with the name. The frame has some rivet detail and an air tank, brake cylinder ,and valve. The frame is about the only part on my car that did not warp. I'll probably use the frame and wooden body core to build a new car with some different sides and ends....DaveB

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:34 pm

CaTTwoman281 wrote:Were these at any time made by (or for) Jewel?
No. The Jewel boxcars had cardstock sides with embossed details. No relation to Star Line.

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:37 pm

Arseny wrote:
milwrd1 wrote: I believe the TT scale Star Line molds and tooling (and possibly parts and kits) are located in storage somewhere in Chicago. John Harmon in 1993(?) sold his TT line to some gentlemen in Chicago who has since passed away. The gentlemen's family has not been willing to sell any of the items obtained from Harmon. :boohoo:
http://www.ttscale.com/w-history2.html

"When TT scale started to be displaced by the more popular N scale that appeared in the 1960's, most of the current TT scale manufacturers started closing their doors. It was at this time that John Harmon and Larry Sayer started to buy out these companies. When they did, they got the remaining stock and the rights to produce the products. John Harmon took an active role by assembling parts into kits and selling whatever he could, and he also made some parts to be used to complete some kits. John later sold most of the companies and parts he acquired to Stanley Lisowski who apparently had also acquired some of the newer injection molds for TT scale. Unfortunately when he passed away, his son inherited them. Apparently He (the son) was very bitter toward the TT community in general, and maybe even toward Dick Taylor and John Harmon, because his Father's dream was not realized. One of the rumors about the son is because he is bitter, these items will not be sold or released to the TT community, ever. The latest word on them is they have been improperly stored and have rusted or corroded beyond use."

Is it the same story?..
Arseny - This is the same story.

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:55 pm

scaro wrote: I think the B-28 might also be an AAR 1937 boxcar, which doesn't do much for the variety we have. I think the trucks are mounted a bit too far under the car though. The ribbing on the door is a little different to the GC car but whether that is right or wrong I wouldn't know.

I do not know that prototype fidelity was as big an issue in the 1940s and 50s so sometimes these older cars are not really representative of any one car.

Ben
I believe it would be a good guess to say that the Star Line molds (and the subsequent B-28 kit ) were based on the 1937 AAR boxcar.

Here's the Star Line instruction sheet.
000_0088.jpg
The title of the drawing says AAR boxcar. Review of the lower right hand corner of the instruction sheet shows a "kit date" of 1949. Here is an enlargement of the lower right hand corner.
000_0090.jpg
It seems logical that a model being made in 1949 would use a 1937 prototype.

Also, note that the instruction sheet is signed by Glyn Lewis. Glyn authored the popular Off N' the Table Top monthly series dealing specifically with TT scale which was written in Railroad Model Craftsman in the 1950's. He also wrote the TT Gauge Handbook published by Carsten's publications in 1960. I don't know what his function was at Star Line. He may have designed the kits, or written the instruction sheet. Perhaps he was some sort of consulant.

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:03 pm

j p wrote:
scaro wrote: I think the B-28 might also be an AAR 1937 boxcar, which doesn't do much for the variety we have. I think the trucks are mounted a bit too far under the car though.

Ben
Don't blame the kit for that :grin:
It is clear from the side where the trucks were supposed to be mounted.
Yes, the trucks are to far under the car. This was clearly a construction error on my part. No fault with the kit. I located my marked up B-28 kit instruction sheet from 23 years ago to "re-visit" the error. The instruction sheet says to mount the wood bolster pads 5/8 inch from the end of the car. I mounted the leading edge of each bolster pad 5/8 inch from the end of the car, resulting in the trucks being mounted to far under the car. The bolster pads are currently located about 1/8 inch to close to the center of the car. Perhaps I'll go back and fix this.

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:11 pm

scaro wrote:Ahh. So the kits did not come with a cast underframe?

There's a school of thought that detailed underframes on boxcars and gons are superfluous, in that 99% of the time you don't see them, and the only time you are likely to see an underframe with any clarity, its appearance is immediately followed up with the even less prototypical appearance of a giant hand from the sky to put the wagon back on the track.
The Star Line kits came with a beautiful well detailed plastic underframe, which included bolsters. The B-28 kit came with a cast metal underframe with separate wood bolster pads. The Star Line kits also had plastic roofwalks.

John Harmon probably did not have enough of the plastic underframes and roofwalks when he put together the B-28 kits. Perhaps he only had the molds for the sides, ends and roofwalks. The B-28 kits were essentially hybrids, using most of the Star Line parts, with the exception being the underframes and the roofwalks.

milwrd1
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by milwrd1 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:22 pm

scaro wrote:
I do not know that prototype fidelity was as big an issue in the 1940s and 50s so sometimes these older cars are not really representative of any one car.

Ben
You may want to re-think that. Here is an enlargement of the lower left hand corner of the 1949 Star Line instruction sheet.
000_0089.jpg
Note what it says: " Note - Canadian cars are required to have an additional step beneath each ladder on both ends of the car."
Seems to be that the boys in 1949 were in some way concerned with prototype fidelity :!: :thumbup:

j p
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Re: Star Line Models Boxcars

Post by j p » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:59 am

scaro wrote:Yeah, it looks like it, in this case.

One way in which the Starline car is better than the GC one is that the side rivets are more obvious.

The GC ones are just about invisible. Based on multiple photos in Rail Model Journal of real AAR 1937 cars, I'd contend that this isn't really right ... one of those rare instances when the detail is underscale rather than overscale. Tends to usually be the other way around.

Ben
When I mentioned that Starline was better I meant ladders and grabirons. The size of the rivets is only a minor detail.

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