KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by LVG1 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:51 am

I did not yet have any of those models in my hands. I know them only from the photos here in this forum. But I know the prototype very well.
CSD wrote:The one thing about the Kuehn version is the windows. They are chunky and, as Chisttking mentioned, there is paint missing around the frames. They lack the fine flush mount look of the original.
The windows indeed look different at both models.
At the prototype the windows open by pushing the upper part past the lower part. Therefor the upper part is about 1 or 1 ½ inches farther outside than the lower part. This applys to the frames as well.
Tillig seams to completely neglect this fact. Additionally, at least the outer frame seams to be a tad too slim.
Kühn more endeavors to reproduce the details. But the frame of the lower part of the windows and the overlap of the outer frame over the body panel is too thick.
All in all, Tillig's windows look more elegant but Kühn's windows are more accurate.
Christtking wrote:I am guessing TILLIG's version is the newer batch (predecessor? )of the real life prototype that were equipped with East German style bogies (trucks) and different window/compartment arrangement. Some had 9 some had 10. Tillig and Kuehn (just guessing) have launched both versions.
Which predecessor do you mean?
Both Tillig and Kühn make models of GDR-made 24.5 meters cars.
There were 3 types of 24.5 meters cars made in GDR—B, Y and Y/B70 types. They all had the same windows. They all had the same trucks (bogies)—except for very few of the export versions. They all had the same window and compartment arrangements.
The various variants (1st, 2nd and mixed 1st and 2nd class coaches, 2nd class couchette coaches and so on) having different window and compartment arrangements were made parallel in each of these types.
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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by LVG1 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:57 pm

CSD wrote:The one thing about the Kuehn version is the windows. They are chunky and, as Chisttking mentioned, there is paint missing around the frames. They lack the fine flush mount look of the original.
Concerning the windows, look here:
Image
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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by LVG1 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:31 am

Christtking wrote:I do not know exactly which one was manufactured first, second or third, e.g.: Y/B70, Y or B type. I am guessing the order goes something like this: B, Y/B70 then Y type.
The GDR-made 24.5 meters cars are following:
  • ОСЖД (OSZhD)-type B:
    – made from 1962 to 1965
    – variants: 1st, 2nd and mixed 1st and 2nd class coaches, 2nd class couchette coaches, sleepers, 3 cars of special versions
    – delivered to GDR railroad, sleepers also to Bulgaria
  • UIC-type Y:
    – made from 1965 to 1969, sleepers and diners until the 1980's
    – variants: 1st, 2nd and mixed 1st and 2nd class coaches, 2nd class couchette coaches, diners, sleepers, Soviet-style sleepers (exchangeable trucks for two gauges, ribbed sides, different window and compartment arrangements, some air-conditioned)
    – delivered to Czechoslovakia (all versions, some regular sleepers equipped with exchangeable trucks for two gauges and Soviet-style EOT lights), GDR (no diners and no Soviet-style sleepers); sleepers also went to Poland (300 cars, all equipped with exchangeable trucks for two gauges and Soviet-style EOT lights), Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria; Soviet-style sleepers went (besides Czechoslovakia) to Soviet Union
  • standard-(fitting both ОСЖД [OSZhD] and UIC standards)-type Y/B70:
    – made from 1969 to the 1980's
    – variants: 1st, 2nd and mixed 1st and 2nd class coaches, 2nd class couchette coaches, combined 2nd class coaches with baggage compartment, baggage cars (and I'm not sure if also combined baggage cars with RPO compartment), customized and air-conditioned variants for non-European customers, special versions for government and military trains of various countries
    – I don't have an overview which variants were delivered to which countries. Customers were: GDR, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Syria, Iraq and Iran.
Tillig makes all 3 types; Kühn makes only Y/B70 type.
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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by CSD » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:52 pm

Christtking wrote:... The beauty is in the eye of the beholder!...
Of course. After all this is just an internet forum, the statements made here are just opinion.
Christtking wrote:1st- Tillig's model: the grab (handle) bars... Tillig 1 - Kuehn 2... 4th-Tillig has the valves under the coach but the handles are not coloured - Kuehn's are, etc. etc...
If we are going to assign a point value, let's not forget one very important point: Tillig is actually releasing the models they list. I have been sitting on my Kuehn CD Y/B 70 for over two years waiting for the other cars to go with it.
Mark
//S

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by j p » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:01 pm

CSD wrote:
If we are going to assign a point value, let's not forget one very important point: Tillig is actually releasing the models they list. I have been sitting on my Kuehn CD Y/B 70 for over two years waiting for the other cars to go with it.
Let me correct your statement:
Tillig is actually releasing some of the models they list.

I wanted to buy DSB Desiro last year, but Tillig decided not to release it

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by CSD » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:47 pm

j p wrote:... I wanted to buy DSB Desiro last year, but Tillig decided not to release it
That is not a fair example. There was no guarantee that that model would be produced as it was a special single edition. They only get made if there enough pre orders.
Mark
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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by CSD » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:56 pm

I have been following Tillig product releases since they took over Zueke. It seems to me that they live up to most of their product listings. The only ones that I have followed that have not been released have been "Einmalauflagen" (one time editions), which are only released when there are enough orders to justify a product run (as stated in their literature). So, Kuehn is a smaller company and deserves some slack? Okay, I agree. But, the other side of that coin is that Tillig has the biggest catalogue of TT items in the world to maintain and should also deserve of a break.


By the way, your improvements to the Kuehn wagon look really good.
Mark
//S

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by CSD » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:47 pm

Christtking wrote:... By the way, please don't get me wrong...
No worries. There is nothing better than a little healthy debating. I think we agree with each other, sort of. Close enough for me.
Christtking wrote:To CSD: Thank you for the compliment!...
I do apologize for taking your topic so far "off the rails".
Mark
//S

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by j p » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:50 am

CSD wrote:
j p wrote:... I wanted to buy DSB Desiro last year, but Tillig decided not to release it
That is not a fair example. There was no guarantee that that model would be produced as it was a special single edition. They only get made if there enough pre orders.
Ok, another example:
V36 in ÖBB version (2065.01), Tillig number 04632.
Look at the pictures on the net http://www.google.dk/search?q=tillig+04 ... 62&bih=726
I ordered it with black wheels - it was also in their catalogue with black wheels, but it arrived with red wheels. They changed to red wheels without bothering to change the product number. Now I have to paint the wheels or order the black wheels as spare parts... It was OK to do with old cheap BTTB models. I would expect more for the price I have to pay for Tillig's products.
Is it a big problem to feed the injection moulding machine with black granulate instead of red?

Regarding Tillig's special single editions: you can see DSB MY (NOHAB) in red-black paint scheme in this year's catalogue as a "special single edition". Fine. The only minor detail is that it is the same one as the one made 3-4 years ago as a limited edition. They even didn't bother to change the road number. Maybe it has a better motor, yes.
Who would order it then? 99% of people doing DSB have it already at home.
And that is a prototype which has dozens of different paint schemes to choose from.

Sorry for off-topic.

Regarding the Y/B 70 from Kuehn: I am waiting 5 years for the version I need. Same with double-deckers. Maybe they come this summer. Thanks for the inspiration how to improve them.
:clap:

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Re: KUEHN Y/B 70 cosmetic outer body alterations

Post by CSD » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:56 am

Image
Mark
//S

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