TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby Richard-B » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:06 pm

MacG wrote:And as surprise to the fair at Leipzig the cylindrical hoppers,
Leipzig_2014_09.jpg
What I LIKE about these cars:
  • Finally... a semi-cylindrical (i.e. not flat-sided) covered hopper... suitable from the 1970's to the present era (with a few detail tweaks...)
  • Finely proportioned end-cages... almost lacy
  • Nice walkways and ladders
  • Well done discharge gates... I've seen much worse in HO-scale!!!
  • A good AB brake set
  • Nice roller-bearing trucks
When I first posted, I was not aware these were 'test' or pre-production models. I suspect they WILL sell well...
and even better (+50 more?) if the lower contour was improved.

I want to give Michael / Art&Detail credit... for the most variety in US prototype cars currently offered in TT.
I've put several A&D cars on my 'must have' list... as they match-up well to cars used here on the US West Coast.
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Somewhere between San Francisco and Budapest...
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby Taxari » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Hello friends,
it's just a car. I understand that you are frustrated, because there are no correct cars and locos for low price.I think it will never be. In my opinion it will ever the most unusual scale for US modelers. But for some of us it is that the charm. Just my opinion, no more.
If anyone of you like to develop a correct car, we (me, MacG and Lok-n-Roll) are open for any ideas. Please feel free sending plans and production ideas. We can discuss everything.
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby Richard-B » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:09 pm

Taxari wrote:If anyone of you like to develop a correct car, we (me, MacG and Lok-n-Roll) are open for any ideas. Please feel free sending plans and production ideas. We can discuss everything.
I have done a bit of manufacturer support recently... helping to ensure that models being produced have 'appropriate' artwork and lettering.

What do I use as resources?
1500+ artwork files that I draw from to do specific artwork designs...
20,000+ freight car photos on this PC... more on my archive HDD.
10 linear meters of bookcase shelves with railroad and freight car books
TOO many magazines... including all FCJ (Freight Cars Journal) and RPCyc (Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia) issues.

...and THEN: I start to research!

This is all in the background... almost always to folks on this list.

Now that I am semi-retired; I am ready to help in any way that I can... from looking at what-to-build decisions, suggesting artwork and color schemes, reviewing concept drawings, or developing actual master artwork for pad-printing or decals.

Just ping me off list at: rbrennan@tt-west.com
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby scaro » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:11 pm

I think it is true that there's two markets, always have been and always will.

There's a tiny market for proto American stuff. We know why it's never going to take off ... there's about 25-50 of us and our preferred prototypes are spread out over era and region, to the extent that there's not the slightest chance of us banding together and getting, say, an HOn3 level of support, where it works because a small market is focused round only one or two railroads in a narrower timeframe.

The only way it would ever happen is that mythical scenario where Atlas says, 'all the good stuff's done in HO and N, let's get into the minor scales and start pumping out GP7s and SP Daylights there.' But I'd suspect there are other, better scales for them to make that decision about, before they decide to pump stuff out in TT.

And there's a larger European market for what I'd describe as a pastiche of things that are 'American-ish' much as Kafka's 'Amerika' is ie, an approximation that does not really have the feel of the thing.

You can see this with Marklin's oddly squashed and elongated Z scale F7s, those weirdo 'American streamline' coaches which were designed by Rokal and seemed to inspire similarly inaccurate models in N and Z, none of which are like anything that ran on American rails, and things like the Union-TT E7 ; at least 10' too short and with a nose like a Baldwin cab unit. American, sure, but only in the way Outback Steakhouse is Australian. If someone were to tell me, an Australian, that I should just be satisfied with Outback Steakhouse as a representation of the real Australia, I am afraid I would tell that person to go climb up his thumb!

In this case, these models are not pastiches. Well, the CN hopper isn't, I've no idea about the flatcar and evidently no one is likely to say what it is supposed to look like. There's some nice workmanship, and if they can be revised, that's a good thing.

But the thing that keeps the 'Amerikan' TT market and the American TT market apart is price, due to exchange rates, and time and time again I've made a decision that I am just not going to pay for models that aren't accurate where I am going to need to kitbash them to turn them into something accurate, when they come at German prices. When it costs that much, it must be right. Now I accept that is a bit unfair on the German producers as they can't help the exchange rates, but when I have to invest that much, it comes with a high expectation.

That is why the offer to research things is there ... because I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea. The thing is to get in the research ^before* the die is cut or the etch drawn up.

...and if it can't ever be, and maybe it can't, I'll more likely go to HO. My eyes would like to go that way anyway!
Last edited by scaro on Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:30 pm

What shocks me most of all (and is not limited to TT or American prototypes) is that the Germans (in general but not all) are not concerned with prototypical models. And by the way, these models (the TT "American" stuff) are not expensive just to us. They are expensive period but that's due to the obvious economies of scale (pun may or may not be intended).

And I'll second the statement that if it can be made correctly instead of incorrectly, then why not???
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby CN-TT » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:36 pm

ConducTTor wrote:... the Germans (in general but not all) are not concerned with prototypical models.


I don't take it personally, but in these times of bigger, better, faster, more, I'm glad that I still see my model railroad through the eyes of a child. For me it's plain and simple JUST A TOY.

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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby areibel » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:45 pm

j p wrote:I do not agree with you.


That's fine, JP. It is my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs.
You produced some very nice decals, but that's different from building the complete car from scratch. If you read what Taxari wrote the car was an experiment, and a hurried one at that. But they posted pics here to basically get insulted for what they did? I guess we will agree to disagree!
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TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:00 pm

CN-TT wrote:
ConducTTor wrote:... the Germans (in general but not all) are not concerned with prototypical models.


I don't take it personally, but in these times of bigger, better, faster, more, I'm glad that I still see my model railroad through the eyes of a child. For me it's plain and simple JUST A TOY.

Bjoern


There is a line however between a toy and something else. A Thomas the Train locomotive for $25 to me is a toy. A locomotive that costs $200 is no longer a toy. There are different expectations at higher prices.

A freight car model costing between $50 and $75 is in my opinion not a toy.

I don't complain about Lionel's Big Rugged models' problems. At $15 a piece, it's hard to do.

But ultimately the point is, if for the same cost you can make it correct, why wouldn't you?

Would I personally buy those hoppers? Probably. Would I take them to a show to show off tt? Probably not. I would be embarrassed to tell people that "my" scale lives in fantasy.


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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby j p » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:23 pm

areibel wrote:
j p wrote:I do not agree with you.


That's fine, JP. It is my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs.
You produced some very nice decals, but that's different from building the complete car from scratch. If you read what Taxari wrote the car was an experiment, and a hurried one at that. But they posted pics here to basically get insulted for what they did? I guess we will agree to disagree!


I am sorry if anyone sees this as an insult.
It has been mentioned here many times that a correct model would not require more work. The resources of NA-TT are very limited, please use them wisely, do not waste them (applies also to Rail TT). I do not think that any of the comments was meant as an insult. People are just trying to help!
I am happy if you like some of the decals. I would never be able to make those without all the help of the people from this board. Making complete cars from scratch takes more time, of course. I hope I can finish some of my "car projects" by the end of the year... :grin:
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Re: TT Scale 2014 NEW Models

Postby Bill Dixon » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:09 am

A few notes

Looking at the cars the shape should be teardrop not horse shoe. Vertical ends are OK if it is a model of the right car.
They look shorter than the Canadian Grain cars so I suspect they are closer to a 54 ft., 3600 cu ft to 3880 cu ft. cylindrical covered hopper. This matches with the number or roof walk supports.

The round hatches on top indicate Potash or chemical service, not grain.
Although the Salmon Colored Canadian Wheat Board scheme looks good, it is not correct for this type of car.
This scheme would only have been on cars with the full length trough hatches.

The Canadian National - Environmental Mode scheme 'Might' be Ok for this car but I think all of these types of car were in service before the Canadian Grain cars were built so it is unlikely that they would have any of the colorful paint schemes.
I would suspect that they all carried more plain mundane schemes.

That being said they do look good and in the absence of the correct car I would buy two or three as painted just to have some variety in my car fleet. I would buy a few more if they were in more correct paint schemes.

If correct models of any of the three different Canadian Grain cars were made I would be in the market for a train or two of them. Of course they would need a SD40-2 to pull them and a proper van at the rear.
You might get by with a pair of SW1200s if they had the Road Switcher Details and proper truck side frames.
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