TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby areibel » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:51 pm

I think I'd keep the gon as is, if you want to try and design a tight radius truck that would be the way to go.
I think we're starting to hit a wall in TT, though. 310mm is roughly 12 inch radius, and that's pretty tight. The more modern
cars with longer wheelbases are going to make this more of an issue. In HO the smallest practical radius is 18", almost everthing built is built to that spec and a alot of stuff is spec'ed at a bigger radius like 22 or 24 inch.
So if you do the math, that gives us a TT minimum of about 13.5"- just about where we're starting to have problems.
Re-engineering the truck is an innovative idea, I don't know if anyone ever did that ( or even thought of it) in HO, but that might help out in more than just this instance. But the modeller can tinker with them too, shaving inside the body or shimming it up a hair. The gon is a great model, I'd keep it as is!
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby ConducTTor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:56 am

Hmmm. I'll tinker with the trucks when I get a chance then.
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby Arseny » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:58 am

Maybe if you develop not such a long gondola as an option, it would work better on a 310-mm radius?
As for me, I use 310-mm, because I have very few space, but I would be glad to own the gondola, suitable for the 1950s...
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby Marquette » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:23 am

Arseny: even in the early 1950s there were a lot of 65' gondolas! Also some other long cars, Pennsylvania RR had a 70' boxcar they built in the 1930s, there were some long flatcars too... just for the record. :)
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby Arseny » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:31 am

Yes, but - if I understood the discussion about the gondolas correct - THIS type of gondolas, that we can order on Shapeways.com, is modern type, not suitable for 1950s. Am I right?

Also, I understand that even in 1930s there were a lot of long wagons, but as I know there were the shorter ones, TOO.
So, if Alex (or somebody else) will start a new gondola, maybe it wold be better to produce not very long one...

I mean - I need 40-foot or even 38-foot wagons, because I have a few space for my layout...
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby scaro » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:02 am

there's a long history (pun intended) of companies selecting short prototype wagons and coaches to release, particularly in the early days of each scale, because a selling point of all scales (at one time or another) has been that they are a lot smaller than the option previously available. HO means half-0 for example.

finding short prototypes is not that hard. one that comes quickly to mind- WP and perhaps Sacramento Northern even in the mid 50s ordered 29' gondolas for the steel traffic from kaiser steel (i believe it was). steel is heavy and you didn't need a huge volume of space in the wagon to accommodate sufficient quantity of steel to reach the maximum axleload. also longer gons caused problems -you had to ensure the load was placed over the bogies; stick it in the centre of a 65' gon and you had a high chance of sagging or worse. the thing with these diminutive wagons like 29' gons and 2-bay ACF cylindrical hoppers is that while they were for distinct traffics, they do not necessarily look out of place in other applications, for example a 2-bay ACF hopper would usually been for cement or some other heavy lading rather than grain, but it doesn't look out of place sitting on a siding next to a grain elevator.

in passenger operation the merit of short vehicles is even more apparent if you want a loop of track and lots of 'roundy-roundy'. and lots of folk seem to regard it as an essential. an 85' coach even in TT is quite a size and bound to look krapp on sharp curves. if you have limited space and your prototype used such vehicles, lateral thinking would suggest going for a shelf style layout, for example the fiddle yard to terminus pikes so popular in the UK. if you must have 'roundy-roundy', shorty coaches have a place. even the ancient 73' athearn coaches are still sought after by 'serious' H0 modellers for this reason.
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby Marquette » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:45 am

Arseny: Aha, got it! Please be a little patient - something good will come soon, hopefully before my birthday (27th)! ;)

Scaro: Passenger equipment isn't something I'd looked at much at all, since all the areas I've ever looked at as potential prototypes to model were freight-only lines. Hoever, I've just been informed that fish was transported in express reefers and baggage-express and baggage-express-RPO cars, so it's something I'll have to start looking at!
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby ConducTTor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Unrealistic radii are a matter of fact (not the exception) on home layouts. That's the reality. Therefore some compromises MUST be made. I'll make some trucks specifically for the gon to deal with this. As for shorter cars, I've already committed to a handful of projects and need to get some of those done before moving onto something else.

CSD and Marquette are honing their CAD skills and sd80mac is ready to go in that respect. Maybe one of them would like to do a short gon / box car / whatever?
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby Marquette » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:46 pm

ConducTTor wrote:CSD and Marquette are honing their CAD skills and sd80mac is ready to go in that respect. Maybe one of them would like to do a short gon / box car / whatever?


That's why I asked Arseny to be patient... I have something in the works. The CAD is about 75% done, but I don't want to say anything until it's done and orderable.

I *will* say, though (and this goes without saying), that it is a steam-era gon, built 1927-1929, rebuilt with steel sheathing 1942, 466 in service in 1950, only three left in service by 1954. But they're a super nifty car!

EDIT: Oh, I'm doing it as rebuilt in 1942 with steel sheathing. I don't think the RP method is the way to go for reproducing wood.
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Re: TT Nut 52 Foot Mill Gondola

Postby ConducTTor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:02 pm

Cool! Maybe start a new topic where relevant discussion can be had?
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