Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Whity » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:11 pm

Passenger sleeping coach
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby LVG1 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:48 pm

How many versions of these sleepers do exist?

...referring to the TT-Model cars and to the prototype as well.
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Re: Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Christtking » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:35 pm

To LVG1: The model is the same, but only the colouring schemes are different. Each country has its own paint scheme (logos and numbering). In real life I could not really tell you how many of the versions are out there. Like in Germany, there could be at least 20 different versions of this particular sleeping coach for different railways (Russia, former Soviet Union, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine,etc.). Same goes for the model. The models are O.K., I do not like the bogies (I do not think they are prototypically correct), they are the same ones used for the Silberlinge models manufactured by KRUGER TT (a little modified). The models are very expensive and very hard to find. In 2004, for 1 car I paid $30, now the price it is between $45-55, or even more.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Arseny » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:35 pm

If you know Russian, you can read some info about model and prototype here:
http://www.12mm.ru/viewcard.php?id=62!6 ... 3!6d!76!2f

It is "Ammendorf" type car; it was built in 1960s-1980s in East Germany. Quite a lot of cars (approx. 30 000) have been built.
It was (and is) very, very popular car in the USSR and today in the former USSR countries - Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.

Usual cars were green. But there were (and are) a lot of brand trains - "Red Arrow", "Express" (Saint-Petersbur - Moscow train N 3), "Intourist", "Birch" (or "Birchie"? I do not know how to translate "Beryozka" correctly), "Smena" ("Replacement", "Young / Rising Generation"), "Aurora", "Repin", "Omich" ("resident of Omsk"), "Amur", "Volga", "Quiet Don", "Repin", "Nicholas express", "Russia", "Amber", etc, etc.

So there were a lot of models. Some of them - different versions; for example, "Red Arrow" for the III era and "Red Arrow" for the V era... And also different RZhD badges (they changed it several times)... And not only Russian trains - there is also version for the Ukrainian Railways and Byelorussian Railways...

Concerning bogies - as I know, Kruger ordered molds to produce the bogies for the old Rokal cars (he had a lot of old car bodies without bogies)

The cars are not too cheap, of course. :) But they are not hard-to-find, at least in Russia.
Baggage cars and diner cars are also available.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby LVG1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:21 pm

I know these cars. I've seen them (prototype and model) several times. And I took some photos of their prototypes when they still went to Germany.
I know that they are GDR-made and some of them even were modernized in Ammendorf in the 1990'ies—perceptible from the different windows. I know that they were used by СЖД (SZD) and are used by (almost) all national railroads in formerly Soviet countries. And I know that each national railroad has it's own standard livery (some even more than one).

What I'm interested in is the sheer number of liveries—standard and brand liveries.
I've seen a lot of pictures of different versions and simply don't have an overview over them, but I'ld like to.

By the way:
I learnt Russian at school, but never trained my skills. So reading Russian texts is not a simple task for me. :shifty:
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Arseny » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:12 pm

Hmmm... I was sure it's not too hard to read Russian text for you, if you live in Lusatia! :wink:

LVG1 wrote:What I'm interested in is the sheer number of liveries—standard and brand liveries.
I've seen a lot of pictures of different versions and simply don't have an overview over them, but I'ld like to.


Sorry, I can't tell you exact number of liveries. But I tried to name most of them.

Ok, let's try to look at the "TT-model"'s website. It does not work well, but I've found the "Products" page:
http://tt-models.spb.ru/1-2/

So...

- car for international trains, Soviet railways, III-IV era (green, with yellow stripe)
- car for internal (domestic) trains, Soviet railways, III-IV era (green, with yellow stripe)
- green car from the 1960s, 2 yellow stripes, vents on the roof, additional window
- green brand car "Smena" ("Replacement", "Young / Rising Generation"), Soviet railways, III-IV era
- green/light blue brand car "Omich" ("resident of Omsk"), Soviet railways, V era
- green car of the Ukrainian railways (Berlin-Lvov), V era
- green car, with emblem, Russian railways, VI era (2 versions)
- green car, with RZhD emblem in the circle, Russian railways, V era
- green/light blue brand car "Amur" (Moscow-Blagoveshchensk), Russian railways, V era
(it is declaerd as green/light blue, but there is a red car on the photo... :wtf: )
- red brand car "Red Arrow - Express", Soviet railways, III-IV era
- red brand car "Red Arrow", Soviet railways, IV era
- red brand car "Red Arrow", Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- red brand car "Red Arrow", Russian railways (RZhD), with an eagle on the badge, VI era
- blue brand car "Red Arrow - Express", Soviet railways, III era (small serie)
- red brand car "Red Arrow - Express", Soviet railways, IV era (very small serie)
- red brand car "Intourist", Soviet railways, III-IV era
- red brand car "Express", Soviet railways, III-IV era
- red brand car "Express", Russian railways (RZhD), with RZhD emblem in the circle, V era
- red brand car "Express", Russian railways (RZhD), with an eagle on the badge, V era
- red brand car "Birch" (or "Birchie"?), Soviet railways, III-IV era
- light blue car with grey stripe, Soviet railways, III-IV era
- light blue brand car "Aurora", with grey stripe and dark blue stripe, Soviet railways, III-IV era
- light blue brand car "Aurora", with grey stripe and dark blue stripe, Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- red-and-beige brand car "Express", from the 1960s
- blue brand car "Volga", Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- blue brand car "Quiet Don", Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- grey-and-light blue brand car "Repin" (Saint-Petersurg - Helsinki), Soviet railways, V era
- grey-and-light blue brand car "Repin", Russian railways (RZhD), with an eagle on the badge, V era
- grey-and-light blue brand car "Repin", Soviet railways (marked as "Leningrad-Helsinki", not "Saint-Petersurg")
- light blue brand car "Ukraine" (Kiev-Moscow), Ukrainian railways, V era
- light blue car with one yellow stripe, Ukrainian railways, V era
- light blue car with two yellow stripes, Ukrainian railways, V era
- blue brand car "Nicholas express" (1st class), Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- blue brand car "Nicholas express" (2nd class), Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- white-blue-red brand car "Russia", Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- red-and-beige brand car "Russia", Soviet railways, III era
- light blue car, Byelorussian Railways, V era
- orange brand car "Baltija" ("Baltic region", Latvian railways, V era
- yellow-and-blue brand car "Amber", Russian railways (RZhD), V era
- blue brand car "Kama" (small serie)
- car of Lithuanian railway

Seems that's all...
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby LVG1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:37 pm

Arseny wrote:Hmmm... I was sure it's not too hard to read Russian text for you, if you live in Lusatia! :wink:


To read it won't be a problem.
Understanding will be a problem. It can easily become annoying if one has to look up two out of three words in a dictionary. :shifty:

Seriously—Slavonic languages won't be easy to learn if you haven't grown up with them. A complicated grammar and a vocabulary that includes many differences from what I am used to. I really plan to improve my Russian knowledge. But first I need better Polish skills because the eastern part of my home town is Polish.
(And Russian is pure sweets compared to Polish... :sick: )


Back to topic:
I've seen a lot of photos of Russian brand trains. Many of them also included Rīga-made cars. So I'm wondering if really all brand trains use(d) Ammendorf-made cars. Do you know that at least about those trains which you have enumerated? (That a model exists, does not always mean that a prototype exists...)
Or in other words—do you also know souces about the prototype?

Oh—not to forget:
Thank you very much, Arseny! :smile:
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Arseny » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:14 pm

LVG1 wrote:I've seen a lot of photos of Russian brand trains. Many of them also included Rīga-made cars. So I'm wondering if really all brand trains use(d) Ammendorf-made cars. Do you know that at least about those trains which you have enumerated? (That a model exist, does not always meant that a prototype exists...)


I am not a great expert, but... are you sure about Riga-made cars?
As I know, Riga carbuilding plant produced only electric- and diesel multi-unit suburban trains, such as ER1, ER2, etc.
Maybe some of them were "brand" too (for example look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER2_electric_trainset - and you'll see the brand suburban train "Karelia"), but no Riga-built cars for long-distance trains.

Concerning your question... I am not a great specialist, so I am afraid to make a mistake.
Most of the passenger cars were Ammendorf type. Besides it, there were some other types:
- Sleepers built by "Egorov" carbuilding plant (long ago)
- Some Polish cars
- Some Hungarian cars (long ago)
- Some yugoslavian cars
- Sleepers from Görlitz plant (RIC, i.e. WLABm and WLABmee)
- Cars built by Tver (former Kalinin) carbuilding plant. For example, new cars for the "Red Arrow" train were built in Tver.

I can't tell you if any of them were used for brand trains.
But at least Tver-built cars are used in "Red Arrow" trains.

As for RIC cars (WLABm) - they were used for international trains only.
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby LVG1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:31 pm

I know about the multiple units from Rīga. But I thought, they initially made passenger cars and continued while making also EMU's and DMU's.

At least I know that all Passenger cars made in GDR had either no or two ribs below the windows. Many cars in (former) Soviet union have clearly more ribs there. They are not from GDR, as far as I know. So they should be from USSR production—I thought, they were from Rīga...
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Re: TT-model Passenger sleeping coach

Postby Arseny » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:46 pm

LVG1 wrote:I know about the multiple units from Rīga. But I thought, they initially made passenger cars and continued while making also EMU's and DMU's.


In the 1920s - maybe. But later, as I know - not.

BTW, this plant produced Ford cars and trucks in 1937-1940...

LVG1 wrote:At least I know that all Passenger cars made in GDR had either no or two ribs below the windows. Many cars in (former) Soviet union have clearly more ribs there. They are not from GDR, as far as I know. So they should be from USSR production—I thought, they were from Rīga...


The Riga plant was not the only carbuilding plant in Russia!
At least we should mention Tver carbuilding plant, Egorov carbuilding plant in Leningrad/Saint-Petersburg (does not produce passenger railroad cars today, only subway cars), Krukov carbuilding plant (Ukraine), Demikhovo carbuilding plant (EMU only, since 1992), Torzhok carbuilding plant (EMU only)...

Maybe you are talking about the cars built in Tver.
Most of the railroad cars on the Soviet railways were Ammendorf-built and Tver-built.
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