TT Free-mo

Re: TT Free-mo

Postby CSD » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:23 am

ConducTTor wrote:... With all the talk about problems with rail to the edges, how do the Germans get away with it?


They use a circuit board end piece (like a Gap Master) to which the rail is soldered to and is screwed to the surface. I believe the rail is set back a fraction of a milimeter as well.

ConducTTor wrote:I've never liked rail pieces between modules...


I'm still in this camp too. It's a deal breaker for me. Bill, I appreciate that you really are the only one doing anything to get some traction on this idea, but to be frank, if and when I build a module it will be the FKTT standard. It's done already and I don't have to make a compromise I don't like. Besides, 99% of these people are not going to build anything anyway (prove me wrong - HINT, HINT). Sorry, Bill. I'm out.

Bill Dixon wrote:... I am aware of the rumblings of a new track line possibly being available soon but will it be available in time for the November show?


As for this, yes? My code 55, #6 switch samples are on the way to me. Once I approve them, the first 50 will be produced.
Mark
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:31 am

CSD wrote:
ConducTTor wrote:... With all the talk about problems with rail to the edges, how do the Germans get away with it?


They use a circuit board end piece (like a Gap Master) to which the rail is soldered to and is screwed to the surface. I believe the rail is set back a fraction of a milimeter as well.


I know :wink: just trying to make a point.

Bill, I really appreciate your experience and the reasons you want connecting pieces. But, I see the Germans doing without them on a regular basis and simply can't believe that we can't do the same.
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:59 pm

Great vid thanks!
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby Bill Dixon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:15 pm

How do the Europeans get away with track to the edge.
By ALWAYS being careful with their modules. During setup, tear down, transportation, while working on them and so on.
It is so easy to snag the rails and bend them.

if you are aware of this and always take care, there is no problem.
It is also easy to do if you only have one module to deal with.
Once you have more than one module time becomes a factor and you become a little less careful.

Setting up the ends would be easier if we had access to setup jigs. Something that is available from multiple manufacturers in Europe. Here with the vast area we are spread over they are less useful. If a club forms in one area they might acquire a set for their own use.

I do not see why you could not use both module types in a setup as long as you had short adapter sections. They would not have to be much longer that 6". Enough to allow clamping from both sides.


As to the straight section at the edge of a module, Free-mo modules are designed to be used in any orientation in a a setup.
Thus there is the possibility of two curved modules being setup to form a reverse curve, something that the prototype as well as model railroaders avoid as much as possible. If your modules will always be set up the same way I see no reason why you could not continue the curve right to the edge of the module or close to it. However once the possibility exists that a module could be used by itself in any orientation the straight sections are needed.

You could make curved modules with a larger degree of curve and reduce the number of joints and thus straight sections.
Of course they will be larger modules and thus heavier and a bit more awkward to handle.

One thing I would like to change is the plain flat end plate. The Fremo standards allow for multiple different end profiles.
For now as we try to get TT-Free-mo off the ground we will stick to the flat end plate. When we hit critical mass we can expand the standard to include different end profiles.
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby oldtrainguy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:07 pm

I am brand new to TT scale (but not to model trains) and was very excited when I found this discussion. I am at the very beginning of designing my modules and was thinking of following the Fre-Mo standards wherever I could. I would much rather use standards that other TT people have adopted.

I wonder if a solution to the track to the edge or held back a bit could be solved with each person making a small transition module? One end would have the track to the edge and the other end have the track set back the standard amount and the module could be rotated as the situation required. Not sure what would be an optimal size, 12, 18, 24in? It wouldn’t need any legs and could just have simple scenery.
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby Bill Dixon » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:43 am

As mentioned in a previous posting running the curved track to the very edge of the module creates reverse curves if you hook up the modules wrong.
Adapter modules could resolve this issue. Here are three-foot 30 degree curved modules with single track on them (~60" radius curves) set up in various ways.
TT Free-Mo Curve no straight.jpg

Modules A and B are set up to form a reverse curve. With the broad curves on the modules in this diagram this would not really be an issue but with sharper curves it will be.
Module B and C have no reverse curve because the curves match each other.
By putting Adapter Module E between modules C and D we eliminate the reverse curve.
Module E would be a minimum of 10" wide. If a stock of these were on hand the curves on curve modules could be a broader radius or the modules could be made smaller.

I would not run a curve right to the edge of a module. I would stop 1" away and have a short section of straight track. I think that equipment will track better across the module joint on straight track than it will on a curve.

oldtrainguy is correct that an adapter module could be used to connect a module with the standard setback to a module with track to the edge. With the differing ideas in this area I can see the need for one or two of these.
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby richardedmonds » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:53 am

As for this, yes? My code 55, #6 switch samples are on the way to me. Once I approve them, the first 50 will be produced.[/quote]

Hell where did I miss this thread this might just fall into my plans Mark, I would love a sample if that can still happen
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby Bill Dixon » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:37 am

I did some doodling, reducing the amount of straight track at the edge of the module.
I cut it down to 2".
TT Free-mo three foot 45 Degree Double Track Curve.jpg

A 45 degree curve module is just larger (in length) than a 30 degree curve module.
Here the new module is shown with the old 30 degree module (in red) behind it.
I practice I would most likely make this 40" long to make the curves a bit smoother.

This has possibilities especially n reducing the number of modules needed for larger curves.
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Bill Dixon
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby Bill Dixon » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:40 pm

Thinking about return loops for the end of the display.
I would like a large radius multi track end loop module set but realistically as I will be the only person building these modules for a while something smaller and easier to transport would be better.
So doodling with a 15" radius curve i have come up with:
TT 15 inch radius turnback.jpg

This is 5 feet by three feet 4 inches. The squares are 12".
15" radius is a bit sharp but will run most equipment at low speed. It is about the same as the radius on the inside curves of my TT-Tracks modules. The module is setup uo to interface with either single or double track. There are reasonable length straight sections between the reverse curves. Larger radius curves would add to length and width.
Adding a second loop would add about 4" to the width but would add 2" plus the length of a turnout to the length.
Adding a third line would only add another two inches around.
For simplicity I would stay with the single loop.

This could be built as one flat awkward to transport piece. If however it was made in two pieces hinged along the red line it would be a more compact piece to transport. I think that it would work with two sets of legs.(Brown square).
The centre of the loop looks to be the perfect place for the DCC system for the display. Feed the main DCC bus to the connectors on the left edge and feed the return loop though an auto reverse circuit.

If you made a second one of these, the mirror image of the first, you would have a ten foot long loop-to-loop display that could be extended by any number of single or double track modules.
TT 3 module loop to loop.jpg

TT 3 module loop to loop with curve.jpg

Maybe the loop pair and a single module to go between them would be the best choice for a starter TT-Free-mo setup.
If it works well then add more as funds and transportation capabilities allow.
With adapters (track to edge to track setback) it would work with anybodies modules. As well it is more affordable than jumping right into a major yard.

I think this is the way to start. Time start doodling on how to make the turnback module.
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Bill Dixon
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Re: TT Free-mo

Postby oldtrainguy » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:47 pm

Bill
I really appreciate all the work you have put into this. I will definitely be using these specs for my modules.
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