TT flex track?

Re: TT flex track?

Postby ctxmf74 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:31 pm

"If you lay a PC tie every 5 tie and solder the track to it" Yeah ,that's what I'm planning to do. I build turnouts that way so could do it on regular track, it's just a lot more work than putting down flextrack :>) My main concern is trying to build a frog that will let HP and larger flanges both run thru without derailing. I'd like to get one of the new Saz model diesels but need to find out if I can make it run with my HP wheeled stuff first. Anyone had any luck mixing the wheels on a layout? ...DaveB
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby Arseny » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:59 pm

ctxmf74 wrote:I'd like to get one of the new Saz model diesels but need to find out if I can make it run with my HP wheeled stuff first. Anyone had any luck mixing the wheels on a layout? ...DaveB


I can't understand the problem, even theoretically.
Ok, you can get some issues (theoretically) with flanges on the turnouts and crossings, but what issue can exist if you mix the wheels?..
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby ctxmf74 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:08 pm

"what issue can exist if you mix the wheels?" The problem would be making frogs that the larger flanges can fit thru without the HP sized wheels falling in the frogs? I'll need to know the flange size and back to back dimension of the Saz loco to know for sure ( if anyone knows the numbers please post them). I have a small Euro TT steam loco with large flanges that I plan to make a turnout for and if it works then I'm guessing the Saz loco will also work..DaveB
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby Arseny » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:39 pm

Which loco do you talking about? Rokal, or BTTB, or Tillig or some else?

If you are talking about Rokal, you'll get a lot of problems any time you will buy/put on the layout new turnout.
Maybe it would be bette to modify the wheels, not turnouts?

Or maybe just run it on the separate track, without any turnouts...
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby Tom Dempsey » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:52 pm

What I do to avoid "solder blobs" is to put a small amount of flux on the tie in the area where the rail will lay, almost as if you were using glue. Place your solder next to the rail while holding it down (I use a piece of metal on top of the rail to place a downward set on it) and place your solder tip against the rail to pc tie interface on the other side. When the solder flows pull the solder roll away. The solder will adhere to the bottom of the rail and the pc tie, it really doesn't take that much solder to get the job done. The English guys who build up blobs are actually trying to simulate the rail hold-downs, I believe.
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:07 am

"Which loco are you talking about? Rokal, or BTTB, or Tillig or some else?" The old steamer I have looks like a Berliner Bahnen BR92 judging by photos I see on ebay. It has flanges about .045 tall so if I can make it work thru frogs along with HP wheeled rolling stock with their .026 flanges I should be able to make a Saz models switcher work? I have to glue down some PC board ties and solder up a turnout to know for sure...DaveB
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby Arseny » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:55 am

I am sure that if you'll use rails/ties/tracks suitable for BTTB locomotives with tall flanges, it will work well with cars/locomotives with low flanges. Why not? The locomotive do not lean on flanges, they only prevent him to go left-right.

As I know, BTTB locomotives do not have problems on Tillig or Kuehn rails or turnouts, you can get some problems only with Filigran-TT or other Code 60 or Code 55 rails.
But of course it's better to test.
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:01 am

"it will work well with cars/locomotives with low flanges. Why not? "
I'll see :>) The back to back distance on the BTTB loco is a bit narrower than the back to back on the HP wheels so the guard rails will need to be set too narrow. Hopefully the HP wheels can still get thru without picking the frog point. A well built turnout should be able to work without guard rails so maybe it will be fine? Do you run any HP wheels along with BTTB locos? .......DaveB
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby Arseny » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:02 am

Hmm, I did not try BTTB locos along with HP wheels/cars. I am afraid it would be difficult due to different couplers. Also it would be historically incorrect... and I did not build my layout yet, at all. :)

But especially for you :) I've put Tillig's EW1 turnout with 3 pieces of trucks just on my table (TT = Table Top! :) ) and tested old HP cars on it (or was it Gandy Dancer?..), manually.
I did not notice the problems. One car derailed on the point (not frog), but two others passed the turnout without any problems; so I beleive it was simply a bad truck/car.

I am sure you'll have no problems.

But even if you'll get any problems with HP stuff on modern turnouts, I beleive it would be better to change the wheelsets/trucks, not turnouts.
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Re: TT flex track?

Postby j p » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:48 am

Arseny wrote:Hmm, I did not try BTTB locos along with HP wheels/cars. I am afraid it would be difficult due to different couplers. Also it would be historically incorrect... and I did not build my layout yet, at all. :)

But especially for you :) I've put Tillig's EW1 turnout with 3 pieces of trucks just on my table (TT = Table Top! :) ) and tested old HP cars on it (or was it Gandy Dancer?..), manually.
I did not notice the problems. One car derailed on the point (not frog), but two others passed the turnout without any problems; so I beleive it was simply a bad truck/car.

I am sure you'll have no problems.

But even if you'll get any problems with HP stuff on modern turnouts, I beleive it would be better to change the wheelsets/trucks, not turnouts.


That was the ultimate test. If they can run through EW1, then can run through any turnout.
I would not recommend EW1.
If you decide to make your own turnouts, the easiest way to ensure that all Zeuke/BTTB/Tillig/HP Products etc. can run through it is to follow the NEM standard. NEM standard ensures that also all rolling stock made according to NMRA standard would run without any problems.
NEM 110 for basic track geometry
NEM 124 for turnouts

The largest HP Products' engines do not like "streetcar" turnouts (like EW1) - but that is also because Tillig's EW1 and Kuehn turnouts do not follow the NEM standard for recommended smallest curve radii (NEM111)
Zeuke/BTTB models sometimes do not like HP Products' turnouts because of the flanges.
Rokal wheels have huge and very wide flanges and are not compatible with HP Products or any modern turnouts.

Regarding changing the wheelsets:
I do not agree with Arseny. HP Products' models have much better wheel profile than any Zeuke or BTTB. Modern European models do not have so huge flanges anymore and can run on Code 60. It is always easier to make the flanges smaller than the other way around.
HP Products' wheels are much more suitable for modern turnouts than Zeuke/BTTB wheels :grin:
The problem is rather with the HP Products' trucks, not the wheelsets. The HP trucks run very well, but they do not look so good. I replaced them with GoldCoast trucks.
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