TT A Fine Gauge

Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:54 pm

We COULD come up with a brand new one.
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby Marquette » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:48 pm

LVG1 wrote:
Marquette wrote:Similarly in German, BTTB used the slogan "Die ideale Spur" - "The Ideal Gauge", like in English, failing to make the important distinction.


No!!!
There's a little but important error in your translation.

"Gauge" means in German "Spurweite".
"Spur" is colloquially used as a short form of it. But it's not its actual meaning.

The German word "Spur" is the NEM standardized term for the designation that includes information about scale and gauge—for instance H0 or TT for standard gauge or H0m or TTe for narrow gauge.

So the German slogan "TT – die ideale Spur" is absolutely correct in every respect.


So still it fits what I said: it's an accepted corruption, like "scale" and "gauge" were over here back in the day... since Maßstab is 'scale', Spurweite is gauge. (And yes, I know "Spur" on its own isn't gauge, but rather track - the English cognate is "spoor", which is the track left by animals...)
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Oh snap! The professor doth relayeth some knowledge :mrgreen:
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby Marquette » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:45 pm

ConducTTor wrote:Oh snap! The professor doth relayeth some knowledge :mrgreen:


Well, I *am* a linguist by training... :P
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:48 pm

Marquette wrote:
ConducTTor wrote:Oh snap! The professor doth relayeth some knowledge :mrgreen:


Well, I *am* a linguist by training... :P


Explains a lot :lol: Don't take it negatively - my mom's a PHD in linguistics.
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby LVG1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:42 am

Marquette wrote:So still it fits what I said: it's an accepted corruption, like "scale" and "gauge" were over here back in the day... since Maßstab is 'scale', Spurweite is gauge. (And yes, I know "Spur" on its own isn't gauge, but rather track - the English cognate is "spoor", which is the track left by animals...)


"Spur" is an extensive term that includes all kinds of marks which anybody or anything can leave—the traces of animals, people, skis or vehicles, the clues a culprit leaves, the remnants of civilization, the scars of war, also a lane on a road or a prepared ski track or the tracks of a tape recorder.
Beside this it also describes very small amounts (a touch of something).
Colloquially it's also used for the tread width and the tracking of a vehicle—or even the gauge of railroads. Some amateurs also use it to mark a single track of a multi-track line or in a railroad station.

No, the term "Spur" is so general that it's absolutely not a "corruption" of its meaning to use it the way Berliner TT-Bahnen did. They used it for advertising for TT scale standard gauge. And that's absolutely what the term "Spur" says.

But I wonder why you try to tell me something about my mother tongue. Have I missunderstood something (in English)? If so, what?
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby Marquette » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:57 am

LVG1 wrote:No, the term "Spur" is so general that it's absolutely not a "corruption" of its meaning to use it the way Berliner TT-Bahnen did. They used it for advertising for TT scale standard gauge. And that's absolutely what the term "Spur" says.


You wrote:
LVG1 wrote:"Spur" is colloquially used as a short form of it. But it's not its actual meaning.


This is what I meant by 'corruption': it's not the word's actual (well, prescribed) meaning.

It's no different than in certain forms of English slang, "sick" is used as "excellent", or in a further extreme, "bad" can mean "good".

But I wonder why you try to tell me something about my mother tongue. Have I missunderstood something (in English)? If so, what?


No offence, but I've learned over the years that mother tongue status often does not mean one actually *knows* the language; being able to speak it, and knowing/understanding it are different things.

And also no offence, but your initial response (as well as some of your other posts on the forum) came across as rather condescending. I'll prefer to write that down to language difference and leave it at that.

I'm here to talk trains, I've other venues to argue language, and here, at least, I'd like for a peaceful and friendly atmosphere!
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby LVG1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:41 am

Marquette wrote:You wrote:
LVG1 wrote:"Spur" is colloquially used as a short form of it. But it's not its actual meaning.


This is what I meant by 'corruption': it's not the word's actual (well, prescribed) meaning.


To use "Spur" as a short form of "Spurweite" (gauge) is an "accepted corruption" of the initial meaning because "Spur" itself is no measure. How Berliner TT-Bahnen used this word is no such "corruption".
But I understood your "So still it fits what I said: it's an accepted corruption,..." as referring to Berliner TT-Bahnen's slogan initially mentioned. Is it that, what I have missunderstood?

Marquette wrote:No offence, but I've learned over the years that mother tongue status often does not mean one actually *knows* the language; being able to speak it, and knowing/understanding it are different things.


You are absolutely right. But interestingly you are the first one who mentions this in referrence to me. Usually I'm the one who is asked (by Germans) what's correct in German and what's not.

Marquette wrote:And also no offence, but your initial response (as well as some of your other posts on the forum) came across as rather condescending. I'll prefer to write that down to language difference and leave it at that.


I think, it's not a problem of languages. Also in other languages I make this impression on other people (only written, usually not orally). But it's not my intention. May be, I use too few smileys? :think:

Marquette wrote:I'm here to talk trains, I've other venues to argue language, and here, at least, I'd like for a peaceful and friendly atmosphere!


So we are in agreement. :thumbup:
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby Bill Dixon » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:45 pm

ConducTTor wrote:We COULD come up with a brand new one.


Here is a remake of the old logo in a modern font.
The button beside it is currently on Ebay.
TT a fine scale.jpg
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Re: TT A Fine Gauge

Postby LVG1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:48 pm

Bill Dixon wrote:Here is a remake of the old logo in a modern font.


Looks good to me! :smile:
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