Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby areibel » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:42 pm

It's actually resin cast. I wish I could get a couple more plain shells, my efforts to build an E8 out of Lionels needs a lot of help!
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby scaro » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:47 pm

Gotcha. So the chances of doing any surgery to it are zip. I'm not tempted at all now.
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby j p » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:04 pm

areibel wrote:It's actually resin cast. I wish I could get a couple more plain shells, my efforts to build an E8 out of Lionels needs a lot of help!


They are kind of expensive for kitbashing: $270.
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby scaro » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:32 pm

yes, it was only a hope that if the shell was injection molded plastic it might be possible to buy it as a part at some point and hack it into something decent. but at the price, and due to it being resin, I think it's another dead end.

our scale seems to specialise in them.
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby TinGoat » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:14 pm

I suggested over on Diesel Detailer that there might be another way to get a better bulldog.

Take a Lionel or other inferior F-Unit and make a mold from it.

Then cast a solid blank in hydrocal or white metal.

File off the offensive details and reshape it until you have a more satisfactory master.

Add new details.

Make a new mold from that master and then start casting new resin models.

Ideally you would create a kit like the Intermountain model that provides various detail parts for making all the different F-Units.

If you get the Bulldog face right, the rest is "relatively easy".
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby scaro » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:59 pm

I read that. But I simply do not think the Lionel can be turned into a TT version of a Highliner.

I do not need to work off a mold of a Lionel, I have one I bought to investigate its potential for bashing. If there was any purpose to mine going under the hacksaw, it would be in pieces on my desk now, I assure you. But there isn't. You may as well start completely fresh. It is a toy, not a scale model and virtually every detail on the shell would need replacing, in addition to reshaping the nose and windshield; though the shape is attractive, I do not think it is right.

The Coastal Engineering unit derives from a TT scale FP unit made in the 1960s that never went into production. It is significantly better than the Lionel and it is equivalent to the Tillig unit in detail (which on the Coastal unit is at least in the right place) but the two I bought are warped in the casting, the side grilles on one side slope downward toward the front, and the grilles need to be totally replaced anyway. The windshield is too flat, it picks up some of the errors of the Athearn 'blue box' F7 I think.

I am not a fan of hacking up a loco made from the Fastcast/Easycast type resins but I suppose the Coastal unit could be cast and worked on, though I've no expertise in metal or Hydrocal casting.

The TT F unit that worth working with is the Shapeways FL9. It has a much better nose and windshield and is the only one with side grilles that look realistic, though they are Farr style grilles, but on a Highliner style shell that wouldn't be the issue as the casting would be designed to have separate etched grilles added.

However on this unit, the roof fans are a bit of a weak point - the best result might be obtained by replacing them with the fans from the Coastal unit.

http://www.shapeways.com/product/2QXDVB ... op-results

Regards,

Ben
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby TinGoat » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Hi Ben,

If you can make a mold for resin with RTV you can make the same mold for Hydrocal. It's just fancy plaster of paris.

Having a Hydrocal blob that is roughly the right shape and size, you can file and sand it to shape and cover it in a thin layer of bondo to create your master.

Make another RTV mold from that and then start casting resin.

All those materials are relatively easy to work with.

If you want a sturdier master you can use white metal. With white metal you can use low melt solder and brass detail parts.

However, instead of RTV you have to cast the blanks in heat resistant Silicon. Or you can cast white metal in single use plaster molds.

Which also means that you need a crucible and a heat source to melt the white metal.

Sculpture Supply Canada has a starter kit: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/detail.php?id=203003

For compound curves you have to think and work like a sculptor.

The FL9 looks like a good jumping off point as long as you remember the limitations of Shapeways and that you will still need to sand some of it down to smooth out the print lines.

One other material that you can sculpt with is two part epoxy putty.
Happy Railroadin'
The Tin Goat
Ron Wm. Hurlbut
Overlooking Fairbank on the Toronto Belt Line
Ontario, Dominion of Canada
====
The Ontario Narrow Gauge Show:
http://www.narrowgaugeontario.com
====
Humber Valley & Simcoe Railway Blog:
http://humbervalleysimcoerailway.blogspot.com/
====
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby richardedmonds » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:16 pm

If you can make a mold for resin with RTV you can make the same mold for Hydrocal. It's just fancy plaster of paris.

Tin Goat got it in one I think get a blob of casting plaster and carve the shape you want for the nose and then resin cast it. The rest of the body would be ideal for etching and drawn to your wordly desires LOL. Plaster of Paris was widely used in the past by pattern makers because it was easy to scrape smooth and add a bit when you took too much off

I'll get me coat LOL
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby scaro » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:39 am

seems to me that plaster would only be useful for modifying the nose.

based on what I know of plaster, I imagine trying to alter the side strapping or grilles in plaster would be difficult.
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Re: Tillig FP7 Rock Island model 500180

Postby areibel » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:18 am

I'll have to dig out all three and compare this weekend, but from what I rememeberI think the Lionel nose is OK. There are a couple problems, but the first is probably the paint- it's very thick. If you strip the paint the detail comes out pretty nice, but the original paint makes everything look like a bunch of blobs.
And the nose- The problem with it is more with the headlight, it's much smaller than it should be. I think it I can drill out the old one for a piece of 3/16 tube and get it smoothed back in it should look OK. The windshield looks off but I think that's a lack of flush glazing, the body's window posts are thick and if the normal plastic insert sits down in. Somewhere I have an experimental shell, I cut a piece of .010 clear styrene and glued it in with Future acrylic, it looks much better. I haven't put the Tillig one together yet, so I'm not sure if it'll need a similar treatment or not.
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