Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Tillig 4 axle sleeping coaches released for various railways. To my knowledge the CSD version (article number 16701) could be a little wrong at all side doors (both ends/both sides). The handrails are not internal as the SZD version (16700). And others will follow. According to the real life prototype there are no sunken areas into the coaches' body for easy fingers or hands grip/grab access. The hand rails (grab irons) are bolted to the external surfaces of the vehicle's walls. Tillig uses one mold fixture to manufacture these models. To rectify this minor problem the areas could be covered with some putty. Let it cure, straighten the surfaces, drill some holes, paint the areas with proper color, let dry then install new handlebars. The second mistake I found about this model (all versions released so far) that the gangway entrances/exits (access doors from one coach to another, located at both ends of the coach) windows are upside down (the 3 ribs/ safety bars). How to fix! Dissasemble the coach very carefully, please pay attention to the MU connectors found at both ends of the coach. When removing the bottom frame they tend to get caught under the steps and then they brake easily. Try to bend them towards outside (clear of the steps) with the help of a pair of tweezers (preferably with some teeth inside the jaws). Sometimes the connectors with the curved wire are not bonded to the body and they are very easy to remove.The clear plastic is molded that way so if separated from the diaphragm and flipped upside down it will not work. The pieces will not mate correctly. The solution is to saw each part into 3 separate pieces (try to make pretty straight cuts) using a jewelers saw with a very fine blade. File each piece (open ends after cutting) about 1 mm. Clean excess off, flip the window into right position, bond the window from the inside of the coach, then install back the other 2 pieces that were separated (we need those, they are used as guides for the diaphragm and they represent the markerlights) at both ends, install back the diaphragms. Remember these pieces are intended (maybe?) to be removed if necessary, or it easy when the manufacturing process takes place, easy assembly, only way to do it. After it is modified, no more removing. Please refer to the photos of the real life prototypes and compare them to the model (if available)
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Clear view of the coach with the handrails.
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End view of the gangway
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Last edited by Christtking on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby j p » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 pm

There is one more possibility: you were looking at a picture of another car :lol:

Pictures of surviving cars shows "internal" handrails. Tillig's model is CSD WLAB delivered in 1974, while your picture is CSD WLAB delivered in 1981. Another difference between those two was that the 1974 car was only for standard gauge (1435 mm) while the 1981 car was for standard 1435 mm and broad 1520 mm. So if you want to run that car all the way to Moscow, you need to make the changes as you've described, new paint, and new decals - to modify it to 1981 series.
The safety bars should be at the bottom part of the window.
All the pictures show former CSD cars, the paint may be different from the original, the surviving cars are used now as MOW equipment.
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(those images will disappear, make a backup if you need them, k-report keeps images only for a limited period of time)
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Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:05 pm

Thanks jp: I was thinking that Tillig created a mutt (mixture) of both versions. I need to dig in more into this. I did not modify the handrails yet, only the windows for the gangways. All the photos of the Russian (former Soviet) I've seen posted over the INTERNET show the safety bars on the bottom also. :thumbup:
Christtking
 

Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:43 am

@jp:It seems that the 1974 version (from your posted photos) it has more vents on the roof also (one side), better say different roof arrangement. One more thing that I can modify on this type of coach (all countries) are the grab bars on the roof above the door (moulded on by TILLIG). Shave them off, drill holes, touch up paint (shaven areas) matching gray color, form brass wires, add glue to the pointy ends, install, paint bars with matching gray color.
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This is the picture that I went by originally for modifying the doors handrails, so I guess it is wrong car (different version/year than TILLIG's).
Christtking
 

Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby j p » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:46 am

Yes, it is from different series/batch. The best is to have the car number to avoid any confusion, but that is not visible on your picture.
You made me open the box and check...
The first picture from the scrapyard is Tillig's car: WLAB 64-80 093-4. And yes, the vents are wrong.
Funny thing about the upside down window of the end doors: Tillig's H0 car has it correctly.

By the way, one of those cars has been kept and repaired for heritage trains, so CD version is also possible:
http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/CZ/CD_WLAB820.php
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Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:19 pm

@jp: Thank you! Same thing goes for the dark green Russian cars also?, I assume. Some were built for European (mostly/ long distance) use and before entering Russian teritory to continue its route the coaches were lifted in order to adapt (switch) the bogies with the Russian wide gauge type of bogies.
Another thing (different type/series/batch), I've seen a photo (can't find it anymore) on the web with a Russian sleeping car, I think it was one of the earlier versions build with sloped roof ends. I need to find that photo!
Last edited by Christtking on Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Christtking
 

Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby j p » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:45 pm

Tillig does not make this in Russian version (yet). But Soviet railways (SZD) had many of those and Tillig makes a SZD version (16700). All of them were for use on international expresses; cars for use only on broad gauge were wider (those are covered in another section of this board).
I don't know if any of those cars changed trucks when entering Russian territory. Only one railway line exists where this would be theoretically possible: the line to Kaliningrad/Königsberg. (was there a sleeping train from Kaliningrad to Poland and Germany?) Trains on all other long distance routes change the trucks where the gauge changes, many hundred miles or kilometers before entering Russia. Broad gauge is (and was) used on the entire network of former SZD (+Finland), not only in Russia. When I took a direct international sleeping car from Prague to St. Petersburg in 1993, the train changed the trucks in Chop near the Czechoslovakia/Ukraine border and continued on broad gauge through 5 other countries before entering Russia. (It was Ammendorf car though, not this one.)
Tillig car is correct for one version of SZD cars (except for the windows in the end doors)

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The cars with sloped roof ends were older, I found a picture from Moscow-Paris route. The bottom part of the sides was different too. They were also used on Moscow-Copenhagen, the train museum in Odense has a model of one of those.
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Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:12 pm

Thanks jp! That's the car from the last photo! I did not know that it was skirted also. It is not the same photo like the one I found (that one had the train on a bridge, straight view and was taken from far away), but that is the car. I am searching for more photos. Seems like I missed one of your earlier posts. That's what I meant when I said Russian, should have said Soviet. Sorry. Tillig actually has some other versions of this type of car (I think one is a CD and the other one is a ZSSR version). I have a Russian version also: light blue with white design, Tillig's article number 16702, SZD, era VI (6). That one might be wrong also, detail wise.
Another thing I came up with. On these Soviet coaches I just realized that they are a little bit different, there is a drawbar with some roller bearing (brackets/holders/fixtures?) that are installed to the exterior of the bogies (sometimes different positions), not coming from one axle to the round device like the ones found on the CSD, etc. versions. The bar is rotating (activated by) with the movement of the car that activates the generator (dynamo?) hidden somewhere else (?) in order to recharge the batteries, I think. I wonder if I can built those tiny pieces from styrene and brass wire, then paint black. I have to search so many photos in my archive. Will get to the bottom of this. Super detail these puppies!
Christtking
 

Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:52 pm

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More photos of the former Soviet coaches. Some of them have 2 safety bars over the windows (end doors).
Christtking
 

Re: Tillig 1670X, sleeping coaches type WLAB (m)(e)

Postby Christtking » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:49 pm

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