Is there a market for US TT?

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:44 am

ConducTTor wrote:Sounds to me like if the extra material required for a 6 axle is not cost/price prohibitive, we have a winner. The SD40-2.

I believe it would be prudent to narrow in on a 4 axle model as well.

Once we have a consensus for both a 6 and a 4 axle model, MTB can come up with a likely price for each. Then we can in turn give feedback on how many we would likely purchase given the two options.

With that last bit of info, MTB can decide if it's financially feasible to proceed with either project.

So, what's the best choice for a 4 axle mainline / road switcher?


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I would like to suggest an addition of one very important step into your schedule: review of 3D drawings and/or 3D prints (preferably by an experienced TT-nut member located in the Bay Area) before any molds are manufactured.
You have mentioned the need for that step earlier:
ConducTTor wrote:As for quality, we know what MTB does. It's not a mystery.

Therefore I think that it is not enough to have only the price indication of the model to give a feedback regarding the number of models. I would need to know if the model would be in MTB's usual quality or if it would be in SW1200 quality.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby ConducTTor » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:58 am

j p wrote:review of 3D drawings and/or 3D prints


That would be beneficial.

j p wrote: I would need to know if the model would be in MTB's usual quality or if it would be in SW1200 quality.


I have no idea what that means.


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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:41 pm

ConducTTor wrote:I have no idea what that means.

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How to put in a nice way...
SW1200 was not a representative model of MTB's production. SW1200 was actually quite good (I have 7 of them). Therefore the review is needed to ensure a model as good as SW1200. The quality of MTB's production for Czech (and European) market is a different story.
MTB can make very nice models - if they care. Let them have 5 or 10 dollars more and insist on making it properly.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby ConducTTor » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:20 pm

Unfortunately there is no such thing as guarantee of quality. From anyone. All manufacturers have products that are done well and products that are crap.


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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby Rich1853 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:17 pm

Are any of these train manfactuters ISO 9000 compliant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000
If they are it will plastered on their websites and and every shipping documents and certificate of conformance.They should also have a quality manual and procedures relating to rejects and their very own suppliers should have one too. Internal and external (by an outside ISO) audits to verify that the processes are followed to the written procedures and to continue their accreditation. I been in quality since I left college in the mid 70s, first with UL (underwriter labortories) than with aerospace companies, from Faichild Republic where the A10 was assembled, ( I was on the Boeing 747 control surface program). Also on the Wild Wessel and ASW. Avionics for military, commercial and general aviations. Martin Baker ejection seats and life support systems, refurbished Argentina A4 Skyhawks seats from the Falkland Wars. Even becoming a certified calibration technician by the ASQ (American Society of Quality). Left March 2018 due to I suffered a stroke. The bright side I bought my first train set in May 2018 to keep me occupied.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:32 pm

You know it is a very complex issue. Today we can easily purchase for the same price an extremely crap product, or when we are lucky, from other vendor the same (similar) product will work for full satisfaction. Almost every manufacturer fulfills all criteria for the quality issues like UL, ISO, DIN etc. but it never means that the final product will be the same best quality. Once I purchased that time a top (expensive) model from one top carmaker. The model was the first one on the market using electronic bus system to control everything. The car was very nice, the people were always looking when I stopped somewhere. From inside and driving quality this was my worst car I ever had. The control system was a nightmare, very slow. This car has got all permissions from all executive services, and they have also all possible certifications for every country of the world. I was extremely happy when after about 2 years I sold the car. i am talking about a very expensive product.
It is very similar for model railroad. There are construction issues, there are manufacturing issues and very often even in the same factory (brand) there are huge differences in quality or in design, what finally influences the performace on the layout. For us, older generation, it very often means, that the model is perfect for the vitrine but will never run seriously on any layout. Interestingly these issues almost completely dissapeared from different model tests. Today's modellers very often push the manufacturers for the highest quality of the surface, of the models with all tiny details and perfect painting, but they do not see that from construction point of view the model will never move correctly on any layout. ( one of famous european EMU won even the award: "Model of the year", and nobody spoke a single world about the construction, where from 16 axles of the heavy long train just two are driven on one end of the train!). Where are those independent sources, journalist or publishers, who will deal with such issues and warn the modellers before a purchase of such model?
I am very happy for example with PIKO's new BR55 in TT scale (0-4-0 steam locomotive). There were again the "old school" constructors at work, and all wheels of the locomotive are driven, not like at competition using the extremely stupid solution with driven tender. Many years ago, after extremely bad experiences I stopped to purchase steam engines with tender drive.
These are the small nuances of our hobby, unfortunately never discussed very openly in public resources. In many articles about the new model they will discuss on half page the lights, and other minor and bigger details, but. at least in the last 10-15 years, I never saw any discussion about the used technology or construction principles, and the manufacturers also do not spend too much energy to build a very robust and well running model. (I was involved about 15 years ago in construction of a huge museum layout, we were happy when some locomotives could make a single turn on a shortest line - what was about 100 m! Many standard H0 models where not able to run on the layout). The manufacturers will invest millions into the latest printing and painting technology, will add to each model a huge bag of detailing parts (what most of modellers will never instal to the model), but will not spend a single bug to improve the running, driving and material quality of the models (expecially for the case when they already collected some bad experiences).
Many of us probably know also the problems with the used instable white metals for the frames, or the famous white cogwheels in the drive chains, which fall appart after few month or years (usually no spare ones).
The list of such aspects is quite long, starting with the coupler misery, ending with a heavy five axle freight locomotive driven by two axles in a short tender. :-D
All these aspects are well hidden in the catalogues and also in most public articles. Thanks God, we have already such forums, as this, were we can discuss openly also the "dark side of the model industry".
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby Robert B » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:00 am

A SD40-2 locomotive measures 68' 10" over the coupler pulling faces.
That makes a TT scale model that is almost 7 inches long.
With a model that long, should the couplers be mounted on the frame-shell or on the trucks?
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby tomvanhoy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:19 am

Krokodil, Thank you for your well spoken statement about running quality! I have often thought that the evolution to electronic control has been a downward spiral on reliability, both mechanical and electronic.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Robert B wrote:A SD40-2 locomotive measures 68' 10" over the coupler pulling faces.
That makes a TT scale model that is almost 7 inches long.
With a model that long, should the couplers be mounted on the frame-shell or on the trucks?



I would mount them probably on the trucks and there will be the challenge how to feed them through the front plate. I think in this case would be more efficient to return to the old school and the front plate should be a part of the truck. It is from my point of view more prototypical ( at least on straight track) as the big hole in the front plate or other artistical solutions connecting the couptler to the truck or the KK mechanizm.
It needs some calculation for the proper design.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:37 pm

I prefer chassis mounted couplers. I hate "creative" solutions that detract from model accuracy.

Having said that, I realize that it's not a perfect world and compromises need to be made. If an elegant solution is found for truck mounted couplers I can live with it. I just don't see one.


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