Is there a market for US TT?

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby Bernd » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:32 pm

railtwister wrote:Are you talking cosmetic errors or mechanical? At this point, I am not as concerned with body shell cosmetics as I would be with the design of the chassis & drivetrain. It’s very hard to beat the Kato & Atlas locos for their performance, ease of assembly, and repairability (as long as parts are available!). It seems like we always tend to want to start backwards by doing a bodyshell first, then worrying about how to power it later. What ever happened to the TT gauge GP38 that the other group was working on, was it ever completed, and was there a drive train done for it? It seems that if there were a good set of trucks manufactured first (whether 4 or 6 wheeled), it would be a lot easier for a modeler to build from that point, rather than if they had a shell but no drive.

Bill in FtL


Bill,

I concur with your ideas 100%. I have more to say but will sit back and see how this thread develops.

I personally don't care for modern engines. I think TT scale should start out like HO did. I'm modeling a lumber and mining railroad. I'd love nothing more than having some steam engines in the 2-6-0, 2-6-2, 2-8-0 or there about category. Looks like scratch-building will be the only way to get engines like that. Also I think we need an American company developer to bring a proper scaled engine to market.

Bernd
Image
User avatar
Bernd
 
Posts: 978
Images: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Rochester, New York

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:33 pm

railtwister wrote:
j p wrote:No.
Do not repeat the same mistake again. Copying errors from N scale or HO scale models when you have a possibility to make a TT scale model correctly without those errors is not a good idea - although it makes the 3D design easier.


Are you talking cosmetic errors or mechanical? At this point, I am not as concerned with body shell cosmetics as I would be with the design of the chassis & drivetrain. It’s very hard to beat the Kato & Atlas locos for their performance, ease of assembly, and repairability (as long as parts are available!). It seems like we always tend to want to start backwards by doing a bodyshell first, then worrying about how to power it later. What ever happened to the TT gauge GP38 that the other group was working on, was it ever completed, and was there a drive train done for it? It seems that if there were a good set of trucks manufactured first (whether 4 or 6 wheeled), it would be a lot easier for a modeler to build from that point, rather than if they had a shell but no drive.

Bill in FtL


I am not sure how much open it is acceptable to write in here. I have seen TT models of old HO models (instead of the real prototypes) made by two different manufacturers - with all HO errors copied and more errors added.

Regarding the drive: I know Atlas N scale, the drive seems to be OK, the possibility for digitalization is poor. I just "fight" with Atlas Dash9 for my boy. The PCB which sits on the top of the drive is not designed for digitalization at all. This is done much better in TT scale models from Tillig and Kuehn.

I cannot make all components for the drives myself. I have to use components which are available. Most of them German, one of the engines gets Australian drive, and some engines get US drives with new motors.
j p
 
Posts: 1299
Images: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby railtwister » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:22 pm

Hi JP,

I’m not sure of your comment about the Atlas locos being poor for digitization because as far as I know, the Atlas non digital light boards were designed to be replaced by a digital board that simply attaches to the frame in the same fashion as the original, with no trouble at all. True, you can’t just add a plug in chip or wire in a separate decoder from any manufacturer that you choose, but here in the states at least two manufacturers (Digitrax and TCS) make DCC/light board plug & play boards for most Kato/Atlas locos. Installing them really only requires loosening the two screws holding the split chassis halves together, removing the OEM board, replacing it with the new decoder board, and then re-tightening the screws. It’s my favorite type of DCC install, because there is no worry about there being enough room for the DCC board in the loco, since it’s the same size as the OEM light board, and there is no need for separate wiring. TCS even makes a DCC conversion for the very old engines that used two separate light boards (one in either end of the loco). Some of these boards even have sound circuitry with speakers already wired and mounted on the board - you cannot get any easier than that! I don’t know what the availability for these boards is like overseas, but probably American profile Atlas & Kato engine’s are not exactly “on the shelf” items there either.

Bill in FtL
railtwister
 
Posts: 723
Images: 4
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Oakland Park (Ft. Lauderdale), FL, USA

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:39 am

Reading this long-long thread my old memories from US getting refreshed. In the late 80-ies, I first time visited Chicago and some model shops. There were shelfes full with different kits and unbelievable amount of parts, gears, wheels etc. I had to purchase an additional suitcase to bring home the boxes with model kits and parts. This was completely unknown here in Europe.
Today you cannot find a model shop, not to speaking about the kits where the beginners can start with their scratch-built experiences. Everybody expects ready made perfect models - mostly out of financial reach of kids or beginners.
Most of today modelers have troubles to open the new model, not to mention the maintenance etc. Of course most of them never get any experience with model construction and also not the skills to work with miniature parts.
I do not know what is the exact reason that noone on the global market is interested in kits and part production for the "real" modelers, who want to put something together and enjoy the final self made vehicle on the layout.
It is probably not that perfect as most of the new R-T-R models, but is self-made and unique. Maybe for the US TT fans it could be a good new start. I would welcome such kits.
Greetings from Austria
E.T.
User avatar
krokodil
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby CFRiad » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:45 am

krokodil wrote:Most of today modellers have troubles to open the new model, not to mention the maintenance etc. Of course most of them never get any experience with model construction and also not the skills to work with miniature parts.
I do not know what is the exact reason that none on the global market is interested in kits and part production for the "real" modellers, who want to put something together and enjoy the final self made vehicle on the layout

Different people have different preferences. Some people like assembling models from kits, painting, weathering. Others like creating beautiful realistic scenery. Other like operating layouts. Neither is more of a "real" modeller than the others. These preferences can come from pure interest and experience, or from constraints such as age, dexterity level, vision acuity, etc.
CFRiad
 
Posts: 616
Images: 68
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:13 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:03 am

railtwister wrote:Hi JP,

I’m not sure of your comment about the Atlas locos being poor for digitization because as far as I know, the Atlas non digital light boards were designed to be replaced by a digital board that simply attaches to the frame in the same fashion as the original, with no trouble at all. True, you can’t just add a plug in chip or wire in a separate decoder from any manufacturer that you choose, but here in the states at least two manufacturers (Digitrax and TCS) make DCC/light board plug & play boards for most Kato/Atlas locos. Installing them really only requires loosening the two screws holding the split chassis halves together, removing the OEM board, replacing it with the new decoder board, and then re-tightening the screws. It’s my favorite type of DCC install, because there is no worry about there being enough room for the DCC board in the loco, since it’s the same size as the OEM light board, and there is no need for separate wiring. TCS even makes a DCC conversion for the very old engines that used two separate light boards (one in either end of the loco). Some of these boards even have sound circuitry with speakers already wired and mounted on the board - you cannot get any easier than that! I don’t know what the availability for these boards is like overseas, but probably American profile Atlas & Kato engine’s are not exactly “on the shelf” items there either.

Bill in FtL


The problem is that the replacement digital PCB from Atlas does not support the digital system we need (Selectrix), it works only with DCC :doh: (as far as I know)
j p
 
Posts: 1299
Images: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: Struer, Denmark

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby RodTT » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:00 am

CFRiad wrote:
krokodil wrote:Most of today modellers have troubles to open the new model, not to mention the maintenance etc. Of course most of them never get any experience with model construction and also not the skills to work with miniature parts.
I do not know what is the exact reason that none on the global market is interested in kits and part production for the "real" modellers, who want to put something together and enjoy the final self made vehicle on the layout

Different people have different preferences. Some people like assembling models from kits, painting, weathering. Others like creating beautiful realistic scenery. Other like operating layouts. Neither is more of a "real" modeller than the others. These preferences can come from pure interest and experience, or from constraints such as age, dexterity level, vision acuity, etc.


I quite agree. A small set of RTR loco options (or even just the one) would suit some people very well, including me. But if people can't agree what they want, and MTB haven't even been asked what they would be prepared to produce, I can't see that happening any time soon.
Maybe it would be better to focus on building on what is already being done by one or two people in the kit or component area. If a complete kit of motor, chassis, trucks, etches and a limited choice of decals were to be made available, all from one source, in small numbers, for one or more of the 3D print loco shells that are already available, I'm sure they would be snapped up. As second best to RTR, it's the lack of any kind of complete chassis/decal/etch package that's the problem, for me at least.
Failing that, some kind of list detailing who to get what from to make up your own chassis for a handful of different locos would be useful. As things are, I'm finding it difficult to know who to source different parts from if I decided to go down that route. It seems like a minefield.
User avatar
RodTT
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Northampton, England

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:18 pm

Do not expect from MTB starter packages etc. Such things are rather complex and expensive for the production. There should be a loco, 2-3 cars, some tracks and probably a power pack. This is beyond the possibilities such small manufacturers like MTB. Even Tillig would have a problem to put together something in this form for US market. Some 25 years ago BTTB had such plans but failed as well. On top of that the modern models (with all details, sophisticated drives etc) in starter packages are quite expensive as well. The starter packages are also distributed on different ways like Hobby Lobby, Hobbytown, Toyshops or even shops like Aldi, Walmart etc. I do not think that anybody from the TT manufacturing world has any connection to those networks, to push their packages there (usually before Xmas), not to mention the sales margins, what are required, for such sales channels.
Now is the international Toyfair in Norimberg, Germany, there would be a good chance to discuss such ideas with the manufacturers.
Greetings from Austria
E.T.
User avatar
krokodil
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby CSD » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:45 pm

I think I can answer the subject header of this topic with some insight given my experience. My opinion is offered grudgingly as I do not wish to rain on anybody’s parade, however; most of the proposed path forward in this discussion is already well trodden ground and been put into practise. So…

Is there a market for US TT?

No.

The problem with TT in the US is inherent in the question; the discussions center on marketing TT instead of actually modeling it.
Mark
//S
User avatar
CSD
 
Posts: 2275
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby TTTerrific » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:35 pm

CSD wrote:I think I can answer the subject header of this topic with some insight given my experience. My opinion is offered grudgingly as I do not wish to rain on anybody’s parade, however; most of the proposed path forward in this discussion is already well trodden ground and been put into practise. So…

Is there a market for US TT?

No.

The problem with TT in the US is inherent in the question; the discussions center on marketing TT instead of actually modeling it.


Thanks CSD for not "raining on anybody's parade." It's more like you "pissed on everybodies' parade." Good for you! It's about time that everyone realize (and accept) that TT is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD -- in the good 'ole USofA. The interests in motive power, rolling stock, structures, scenery, etc., etc. are broad and deep and highly varied. Where would any prospective manufacturer/marketer/distributor even start!? I get that there are like 4-5 "epochs" in Euro model railroading? Well, the same or similar can be said of NA railroads as well--with --what: 3-4 "generations" of diesel locomotives alone!

At 72 years I have no interest in or concerns about anything past the first generation of diesels and remember quite well the last five years of steam power on the SP. Much younger model rails have very little interst in steam and early diesels. I suspect we all have romanticized to some extent our childhood experience with real railroads that carryover to our modelling interests. The TT train left the station decades ago and has chugged down the line to obscurity, never to return.

The fun for me is to see how many of you have done what you can with with you've got to build rolling stock, power models, lay track, etc. in this OBSCURE scale. Such efforts are truly UNIQUE and greatly appreciated by at least one member (me) who is so JADED by nearly everything in ALL the other scales (okay--excepting the proto-48 tribe--maybe).
TTTerrific
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:14 am
Location: Hollister, California

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest