Is there a market for US TT?

Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby Bernd » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:43 pm

krokodil wrote:I would mount them probably on the trucks and there will be the challenge how to feed them through the front plate. I think in this case would be more efficient to return to the old school and the front plate should be a part of the truck. It is from my point of view more prototypical ( at least on straight track) as the big hole in the front plate or other artistical solutions connecting the couptler to the truck or the KK mechanizm. It needs some calculation for the proper design.


And you just lost a majority of American modelers. If you've ever taken a look at the HO models that are being produced today by Rapido. https://www.rapidotrains.com/ho-ge-b36-7/
These are the kind of models that will sell in North America.

Not the Tyco 1960's looking engines.
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Just my opinion.

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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:23 pm

The Rapido solution is very nice, but I am afraid it will not work for TT, or somebody has to develop a new track system. In H0 there is a bigger choice and also more variations.
The TYCO solution is a nightmare, this is exactly what I would not do at all.
The design needs a very exact calculation for the selected track system ( or the manufacturer can state the minimum radius and disclose 50% of potential TT customers.). This is a challenge in smaller scales. On top of that the two coupler systems ( EU/US ) require completely different approach. I have no idea yet what could be the optimal solution. But when we consider the very old Zeuke/Herr/Gützold solutions with moving front plate (trucks) the models could be closer to reality and easier to make.
The good basis could be taken from Mehano's Blue tiger. It is basically longer than the SD40 and the couplers are there.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby Tom Dempsey » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:44 pm

Or maybe only purchase locomotives that fit your layout. Six axle power belongs on large radius layouts, if you pike is short, so should your locomotives be.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:58 pm

Tom Dempsey wrote:Or maybe only purchase locomotives that fit your layout. Six axle power belongs on large radius layouts, if you pike is short, so should your locomotives be.


I agree with this. One of the reasons I want us to have a 4 axle alternative.


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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:48 pm

I agree with you both, but as we see also here, many modellers wish to have the long 6 axle diesels, and maybe they will be very unhappy when they discover that they derail on every second switch or the cars coupled to the locomotive will derail, because of limited flexibility of the couplers mounted on the long frame..
These are the real challenges of the manufacturers when they deside to go for SD40. No one of them will put any note on the box| Please do not buy if you have a small layout! :-)
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:14 pm

krokodil wrote:The Rapido solution is very nice, but I am afraid it will not work for TT, or somebody has to develop a new track system. In H0 there is a bigger choice and also more variations.
The TYCO solution is a nightmare, this is exactly what I would not do at all.
The design needs a very exact calculation for the selected track system ( or the manufacturer can state the minimum radius and disclose 50% of potential TT customers.). This is a challenge in smaller scales. On top of that the two coupler systems ( EU/US ) require completely different approach. I have no idea yet what could be the optimal solution. But when we consider the very old Zeuke/Herr/Gützold solutions with moving front plate (trucks) the models could be closer to reality and easier to make.
The good basis could be taken from Mehano's Blue tiger. It is basically longer than the SD40 and the couplers are there.


I got somehow lost in this. Do you expect to make SD40-2 in Deutche Bahn's livery or...? The European coupler system for NA models is very similar to American one: either MTL N-scale coupers or Kadee H0n3 couplers. McHenry sometimes too. All those are more or less compatible with each other and they are even compatible with the oldest TT-scale H.P.Products couplers from 1946.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:30 pm

No, I do not expect an SD40 in DBAG livery (neither in CD :-) ), but majority of TTnut member expect such model from MTB, with no or limited experience with US coupler mechanizm. Ie, they will start with the european standards and solutions and will try to design the model for existing track system.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:16 pm

krokodil wrote:I agree with you both, but as we see also here, many modellers wish to have the long 6 axle diesels, and maybe they will be very unhappy when they discover that they derail on every second switch or the cars coupled to the locomotive will derail, because of limited flexibility of the couplers mounted on the long frame..
These are the real challenges of the manufacturers when they deside to go for SD40. No one of them will put any note on the box| Please do not buy if you have a small layout! :-)


I do not have any SD-40, but I do have a GG-1. That is 4-6-6-4 (6 driven axles + 4 more axles in pilot trucks). The prototype GG1's length is 79 ft, the model is somehow shorter than it supposed to be. It does not derail on switches. Here are some pictures of it on some old Pilz track (I don't have BTTB track anymore). The radius is 353 mm here. It looks weird there, but it runs and it has no problems with freight cars. But it cannot be coupled to passenger cars with body mounted couplers. Those cars cannot run on such a curve - which is also expected because both NEM and NMRA standards require wider curves for longer cars. Therefore, I want to use truck mounted couplers on my PRR Congressional train - although I do not use R353 anywhere. It is for compatibility with other people's layouts.

-Jan

GG1_1.jpg

GG1_2.jpg

GG1_3.jpg

GG1_4.jpg
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby j p » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:22 pm

krokodil wrote:No, I do not expect an SD40 in DBAG livery (neither in CD :-) ), but majority of TTnut member expect such model from MTB, with no or limited experience with US coupler mechanizm. Ie, they will start with the european standards and solutions and will try to design the model for existing track system.


Oh, I would not underestimate MTB in this. Limited or no experience? Really? Their "home" TT model train club is using MTL couplers on all their (European) rolling stock! They had probably more experience with it than you and me together even before they started the MTB company.
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Re: Is there a market for US TT?

Postby krokodil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:27 pm

It is exactly the case what I am talking about. The majority of US modellers will prefer the body mounted couplers, but it is probably not possible, if the locomotive have to run on generally available track systems (Tillig or Kuehn).
Unfortunately I do not have the blue tiger, it is too long for our layout, so I do not have any experience about its performance on standard modern TT track system.
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