The Foobie File

The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:54 am

I have done some research on the HO USRA double sheathed rebuilt boxcar. I would like to advise anyone thinking of modelling this in TT NOT to use the Atlas car as a basis.

It turns out that this car is prototypically inaccurate for every example of a USRA rebuilt DS car. That is, no actual rebuilt USRA DS boxcar has the combination of details on the Atlas car. Unfortunately even the NMRA has apparently printed plans for this car with the Atlas mistakes in them.

I am hoping this thread can in time build up to a 'foobie file' where dodgy models are recorded and any TT manufacturers or modellers thinking of using the HO car as a guide, can take note and avoid ...

The idea is that anyone who wants to manufacture a car doesn't waste his time doing a master that is either not accurate or so obscure that it is virtually unusable, and unsaleable.

I hope also that we could use such a resource to pinpoint those prototypes that are worth manufacturing.

Ben
Last edited by scaro on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scaro
 

Re: The Shame File

Postby railtwister » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:13 am

Hi Ben,
Two questions; 1) are you absolutely sure about this car being so inadequate?, and 2) have you contacted Atlas?

Can you do a similar comparison using the similar car S Helper Service offered in the past, or perhaps an HO one from Accurail?

I know Don Thompson at S Helper Service was a stickler for researching a car thoroughly before producing it.

Bill in FL



scaro wrote:I have done some research on the HO USRA double sheathed rebuilt boxcar. I would like to advise anyone thinking of modelling this in TT NOT to use the Atlas car as a basis.

It turns out that this car is prototypically inaccurate for every example of a USRA rebuilt DS car. That is, no actual rebuilt USRA DS boxcar has the combination of details on the Atlas car.

I am hoping this thread can in time build up to a 'shame file' where bad models are recorded and any TT manufacturers or modellers thinking of using the HO car as a guide, can take note and avoid ...

The idea is that anyone who wants to manufacture a car doesn't waste his time doing a master that is either not accurate or so obscure that it is virtually unusable, and unsaleable.

I hope also that we could use such a resource to pinpoint those prototypes that are worth manufacturing.

Ben
railtwister
 
Posts: 695
Images: 4
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Oakland Park (Ft. Lauderdale), FL, USA

Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:49 pm

hi bill

i read the threads on STMFC and their finding was that there was no car that it was right for.

it was alleged to be closest for the ACL/C&WC and SLSF rebuilds. however, even this does not work out. there are two big errors. the sill, which is identified on the STMFC discussion as not being anything like near recessed enough, and i think the roof of the atlas car is also wrong for ACL/C&WC and SLSF cars as it does not overhang; the top edge on the atlas car is a double riveted band of steel. this may be right for some USRA rebuilds, but the trade-off would be those cars would be wrong in other ways. one guy called the car a 'hermaphrodite' it had bits of different cars rendered nicely but did not follow any particular prototype, and the deviations were not easy to correct.

the roof problem is not picked up in the discussions but is clear if you look at the atlas car and pictures of ACL/C&WC and SLSF cars that they have a very different roof.

on STMFC they went through a comparison of all rebuilds. further, if you look at rail model craftsman, sept -oct 1989, the cars of all owners are described so you can do a comparison. some on the STMFC are pedantic but in this case i think they are right. i am happy to be contradicted.

however, on the atlas H0 model the big inadequacy is not hard to spot, the recessed sill which all rebuilds have is not really right. in fact, listees pointed to the S helper service car being the basis for the atlas car and its inaccuracies being picked up by atlas. but i do not have that car, nor a good picture, nor do i know how atlas came up with their design. same goes for the accurail car. from looking at some images online of the S helper car, it does not look too bad to me. but i don't have a set of closeup images or a model to examine. hence i cannot do such a comparison. OTOH, i have seen the atlas car at exhibitions. it's certainly popular.

to get an idea of how recessed the sill is, here is a shot of the C&WC car:

http://steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/ ... 4main.html

i have not contacted atlas. it would serve no purpose for me; they are not likely to make a car in TT and i don't model H0. my aim is to make sure that if anyone wants to use it as a prototype for a TT model, that they are aware of the pitfalls.

it may be that discussion here draws out the best car to use as the basis for a TT model. heck, the atlas car may be the best in many respects. but an assumption that the atlas car was correct would i think lead modellers and manufacturers into error. it is not right on the details for any one one car you might like to choose, and more importantly, it really does not capture the look well.

maybe 'the shame file' is a bit of a tough name for the thread, since the aim is to pinpoint where stuff isn't quite right and to ensure any TT model that eventuates is better.

(edited to 'the foobie file', with apologies to anyone reading who has foobies ...no vilification intended. BenS)

ben
scaro
 

Re: The Foobie File

Postby Richard-B » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:14 pm

scaro wrote:<snip> I would like to advise anyone thinking of modelling this in TT NOT to use the Atlas car as a basis.

My Version:
I would like to advise anyone thinking of modelling ANY PROTOTYPE CAR in TT NOT to use ANY INJECTION MOLDED HO (or other) SCALE car as a SOLE basis.
---------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - http://www.tt-west.com
Somewhere between Shenzhen and Budapest...
User avatar
Richard-B
 
Posts: 812
Images: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: San Leandro, CA

Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:36 am

That is a good principle. Regardless, I think we have to accept that it is happening. In some cases language and inability to buy things internationally (even if you can work out which issue of a long deleted run of cyclopaedias has the information you need) means that just buying a car is a heck of a lot easier and cheaper than other options.

This thread I hope would be an adjunct so that an HO model *isn't* the sole basis, given much of this site seems to be replicated in other languages on other TT fora.
scaro
 

Re: The Foobie File

Postby j p » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:43 am

scaro wrote:That is a good principle. Regardless, I think we have to accept that it is happening. In some cases language and inability to buy things internationally (even if you can work out which issue of a long deleted run of cyclopaedias has the information you need) means that just buying a car is a heck of a lot easier and cheaper than other options.

This thread I hope would be an adjunct so that an HO model *isn't* the sole basis, given much of this site seems to be replicated in other languages on other TT fora.


Easier yes.
Cheaper no. You can always borrow the old books from your library!
When my local little library in Struer, Denmark can get books for me from University of Missouri - St. Louis and from The State Historical Society of Wisconsin, your local library should be able to do the same.
j p
 
Posts: 1194
Images: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:49 pm

i doubt it ... my library in the UK didn't seem to think it was possible. or maybe they just were not keen because work on their behalf was involved.

did you have to identify which library in the US your local library should go to and request the book from?
scaro
 

Re: The Foobie File

Postby TinGoat » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:49 pm

I work for the Toronto Public Library - Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Not everyone that works in a Library is a Librarian! Most are Clerks and Pages = Wage Slaves. You need to talk to an actual Librarian who is trained in Library Science.

The Interlibrary Loan Service: http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/using-the-library/interlibrary-loan.jsp

You usually need to go to the Main Branch of the Library and convince someone that they don't hold a copy of the book you are looking for. You may also have to find a Library System that does have the book you are looking for.

Also helpful if you have the ISBN number for the book.

Likely, you will have to go directly to the Interloan Department.

Since the books are sent through Post and you may have to wait for someone in the other system to return the book if it is signed out.... It can be several weeks before you get the book.

Also, there are heavy fines if you are late returning the book and there are no renewals on Interloan items.
Happy Railroadin'
The Tin Goat
Ron Wm. Hurlbut
Overlooking Fairbank on the Toronto Belt Line
Ontario, Dominion of Canada
====
The Ontario Narrow Gauge Show:
http://www.narrowgaugeontario.com
====
Humber Valley & Simcoe Railway Blog:
http://humbervalleysimcoerailway.blogspot.com/
====
"Do you mind being apathetic?"
User avatar
TinGoat
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:36 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Dominion of Canada

Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:29 pm

thanks ron, handy advice.

i should say that our local library in cambridge is not bad ... as you might expect in a seat of learning. but i think my query took the guy out of his 'comfort zone.' i seem to remember some sort of principle when i looked into this years ago that you had to show that the your country's library system didn't have the book. i don't think they'd have such volumes as 'frisco diesel power' but who knows. british libraries have all sorts of things.

thank you, i'll request a book and see what emerges.
scaro
 

Re: The Foobie File

Postby j p » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:32 pm

scaro wrote:i doubt it ... my library in the UK didn't seem to think it was possible. or maybe they just were not keen because work on their behalf was involved.

did you have to identify which library in the US your local library should go to and request the book from?


No. I had to identify only the books: Book's name + author or ISBN. They submitted the request to the Danish Royal Library (which is the largest library in Denmark). There they could locate which libraries in the network had those books available.
Yes, it requires some work. But that is something they are paid for! The librarian was very happy that he could help, he likes his job.
j p
 
Posts: 1194
Images: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Next

Return to Prototypes / Models

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests