The Foobie File

Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:39 am

I have this quality of being not being able to let a scab heal, as they say, and ferreting things down to the last degree.

I have offered and continue to offer to any TT manufacturer here that if they want me to research a potential model for correctness, and popularity, that is numbers of roads that rostered it, I am happy to do so.

That includes models derived from HO prototypes. There are a lot of discussions on HO forums about the correctness or otherwise of this or that car and they do form part of the research. Why on earth not? It's the same 'real world' we are trying to model and it would be nice to see folks who say 'yeah, the HO model has X, Y Z, problems' and come back and say, 'yeah, but the TT one doesn't.'

I can't understand an argument that says we in TT should reinvent the wheel and get it wrong -in our own unique way- all over again.

I like finding this kind of information and I know a lot of manufacturers don't.

I'd also admit it where I couldn't be sure, because that happens too.

No money incentive needed.

I would fully respect all confidences, including a decision not to make it correct, but that of course only applies to the timeframe prior to release.

(I would hope this doesn't happen because this kind of research works when it's done before the mill is set up for cutting, not after.)

Benjamin
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby Richard-B » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:17 pm

My (long-winded) 2-cents:
This hobby has two fundamental approaches, which are at times polar opposites:
1) Scale Model Railroading
The 'RPM" approach... focus on close adherence to specific prototypes and operations
2) "Trains are Fun"
Focus on accessible and visually interesting equipment & "running" trains

The impact of the RPM'ers, who were initially at odd with most of the existing Model RR powers-that-be, was to incent manufacturers to build technically refined and more accurate models. This effort, enabled by advances in manufacturing technologies, means that the "state-of-the-art" in 2014 is vastly superior to products available in the post-WW2 era, when the hobby really started to grow.

"Foobies" feed the 2nd market. Many (most?) modelers can recognize the improved quality in cars they can readily buy, but could really care less about the exact details or lettering for any given car number. This segment also includes the 'Toy Train" market, who ONLY care about the entertainment value... as well as the "Collectible" and / or "Nostalgia" markets. Off-the-shelf visual attraction is #1... price is important at the low end.

The fuzzy-grey middle ground is Foobie decoration of otherwise accurate cars. I think every volume manufacturer has done this... It is hard to avoid throwing a UP herald and Armour Yellow paint scheme on every car/engine you make... when you KNOW it will increase sales. Some of the more ethical producers now discretely indicate which pieces are "Fantasy" or "NP" (Not Prototypical) paint schemes.

Finally - the continuing development of actual Foobie models:
In this day and age... the only real reason for new Foobies is lazy product management (i.e. insufficient technical and market research). Excuses: It has to fit the jewel box; We re-used the underframe from another car; Company Xxxxx has sold thousands just like it - copy it for us; The average buyer won't notice; We have to have it in UP, PRR, CN, SP and Xxxx, etc.

Amazingly, if you cheap-out the design, you get a cheap (and deficient) product. Good for "Toys"... bad for Models.
On the other hand, if you pick an actual prototype with broad market interest, and produce it well and accurately, you can appeal to all market segments: Scale Modelers for the most correct versions, general interest for the most appealing ones.
In today's CAD-driven commercial product design cycle, for the same LEVEL of detail, it costs no more to get the details right than it does to get them wrong. The computer doesn't care if there are 11 ribs or 12, or if the door is 8ft or 10. Scale Modelers do.

IMHO:
Foobie decoration helps pay the freight for Scale Modelers...
Foobie cars are Toys.

Both have a place - I have my personal preference....
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby Richard-B » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:25 pm

Forthwith: My input to the Foobie Wars:

Foobie decoration for a Foobie car:
Fantasy paint schemes for the MDC-clone waffle box:
Comments?

Foobie Waffle_Box10.jpg
Fantasy Foobies
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby milwrd1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:44 pm

ConducTTor wrote:
Marquette wrote:.....*accuracy*, which means, getting the basic things right - roof design, doors, ends, dimensions....


I fully agree with this.

The point though is that most people don't know (probably don't care) about those things. Therefore manufacturers can produce inaccurate stuff.

I'm not at all saying this is how we should do things. I'm pointing out why that's the industry "standard".


I believe the above sums it up. The basic things outlined above should be correct. I believe the use of industry "standard" here is being applied to the large manufacturers, who are driven by the financial side of the equation.

Also, if someone really wanted a Railbox car, (for example), even though the roof on the Railbox car is not correct, I believe the work required for the modeler to fix it would require less time and cost less than scratchbuilding the entire car. Buy it and fix it :!:
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby TiTan downunder » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:51 pm

Richard,

I'll take Frisco, DRGW & WP seeing as you didn't include GN, NP, the Q or SP&S.

Seriously though, not being able to walk out my back door and see the real thing, I'm not too fussed if it's a reasonable presentation of what it's supposed to be. You can only compare so much detail from a single magazine photo so, unless it's been the subject of a kit-bash ( or whatever ) article, in a magazine I have access to ( meaning my library ), how am I to judge.

If, I'm starting from scratch, I'll do the best I can with the information I have which, usually includes 1 of every HO &/or N model of that particular item.

I am currently working on a kit-bash of a 50' single door boxcar to do a GN 39500-39699 series jade green cushion ride car which had a single 10' Camel door. The donor car is a 15 - 20 year old urethane cast, multi-piece kit, which was sold assembled & painted in boxcar red, ready for decals. Unfortunately, the side castings are bellied, probably because they were pulled from the mould too early. It is only visible when looking along the car, not side on. There is nothing I can do to straighten them out so, I will live with this.

One day, I'll get the airslide hopper and that ATSF coal porter finally sorted out.

IMHO modelling is no different to life. It is full of compromises and if your don't give somewhere along the line, they'll be putting you in the " nutty farm ".
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:43 am

Richard-B wrote:Forthwith: My input to the Foobie Wars:

Foobie decoration for a Foobie car:
Fantasy paint schemes for the MDC-clone waffle box:
Comments?

Foobie Waffle_Box10.jpg



i'd have to buy one of each to get my hands on the decals, LOL.
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby Marquette » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:21 am

TiTan downunder wrote:Seriously though, not being able to walk out my back door and see the real thing, I'm not too fussed if it's a reasonable presentation of what it's supposed to be. You can only compare so much detail from a single magazine photo so, unless it's been the subject of a kit-bash ( or whatever ) article, in a magazine I have access to ( meaning my library ), how am I to judge.


None of the things i want to model - whether North American or North Korean - are things that I can go out and take a look at. I am understandably slacker in my standards for accuracy with regards to North Korean stuff. With the North American I am much more strict because the information is *all available*. I'm modelling a subject that is on the other side of the continent from me, too. Yes, for some things you'll have only a single photo to go on - for such things I might even consider *not* modelling it, unless it's essential to the overall location I want to model, then I'll do my best with what I have. Mostly it'll be location-specific buildings I'll do this with. Freight cars, not so much - since there *is* so much information out there, my preference is/will be to build the cars I can represent the most accurately.
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:42 pm

"I am understandably slacker in my standards for accuracy with regards to North Korean stuff"

Is Dennis Rodman aware of this? ........DaveB
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Re: The Foobie File

Postby scaro » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:51 pm

LOL.
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Re: The Foobie File - more "Waffoobies"

Postby Richard-B » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:57 pm

TiTan downunder wrote:I'll take Frisco, DRGW & WP seeing as you didn't include GN, NP, the Q or SP&S.


Sorry... no artwork for SP&S;
You would have to settle for Seattle and North Coast...
50-00-XM-waffle4_5x.jpg
5 more waffoobies...

The "difficult" - We do immediately... The "impossible" takes a little longer...
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