Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Marquette » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:58 am

That's a gorgeous car! I want one! :D
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby LVG1 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:54 am

Arseny wrote:Looks like 1942 Packard 180...


It not only looks like Packard 180. It actually is Packard 180.
In the early 1940ies Packard sold their production facilities of the discontinued model 180 to the Soviet Union. So ZIS 110 is not only an exact copy of Packard 180, but even made with the same tools.
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Arseny » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:04 pm

No, it is not so.
Although ZiS-110 looks like Packard, some Russian owners tried to use spare parts from Packard - it's impossible!
ZiS was a bit wider; footsteps are separate on Packard, but they almost disappeared on ZiS, also look at the windshield, and compare the rear side, and the wings (fenders) - they differ...
To say the truth, ZiS designers used Buick body as prototype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_180

There have been rumors that machinery was transferred to the Soviet Union, and production continued until 1959 as the ZIS-110. However, according to James Ward's book The Fall of Packard, page 46, he found no supporting evidence in the Packard archives of such a transfer. Also, the ZIS-110 shares no sheet metal with any Packard,[1] despite the fact that its external decor elements were intentionally designed to heavily resemble pre-war Packards, favoured by Stalin.

800px-1942-Packard-160_1.jpg
Packard
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ZiS


i-packard_180_limo_41_01.jpg
Packard
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ZiS
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby LVG1 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Arseny wrote:..., according to James Ward's book The Fall of Packard, page 46, he found no supporting evidence in the Packard archives of such a transfer.


That doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Possibly some evidence could be found in Moskva... :thinking:
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Arseny » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:21 pm

LVG1 wrote:
Arseny wrote:..., according to James Ward's book The Fall of Packard, page 46, he found no supporting evidence in the Packard archives of such a transfer.


That doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Possibly some evidence could be found in Moskva... :thinking:


Yes, of course, but Russian historians say the same thing.
In any case, you can compare the photos, and notice that ZiS-110 differs a little from Packard.
Maybe it will not be so noticeable in 1:120, but...

Even Lada, GAZ-M1 and GAZ-AA differed from FIAT-124, 1934 Ford B and Ford AA, although they were licenced copies...
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Arseny » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:15 am

"Russian iron" :)

russian_iron_0.jpg
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby LVG1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:31 am

And how many of them have really been imported by the US? :?:
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Arseny » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:27 am

LVG1 wrote:And how many of them have really been imported by the US? :?:


As I know, no one. The project was unsuccessful.

But at least 3 Moskvich cars existed in USA, imported by private persons. One of them survived and was restored by Gary Bricken, Texas.

moskvich_05.jpg
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby LVG1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:26 pm

It seems to be an early Moskvich 407, isn't it?
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Re: Russian = American! (Cars and trucks anyways...)

Postby Arseny » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:28 pm

LVG1 wrote:It seems to be an early Moskvich 407, isn't it?


Yes, you are right. But Moskvich 402, 407 and 403 had the same body (Moskvich 403 had different grille).

BTW in 1958-1959 my grandmother and grandfather wanted to buy Moskvich, but later they decided to buy Volga GAZ-21. (Moskvich was relatively cheap car, and Volga was much more expensive, so they could get the ordered car faster)
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