Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby krokodil » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:00 am

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Kkk3

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Kkk2
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Kkk1

The Roco has a standardized NEM pocket ( see above the PDF file). Your coupler is the older type for BTTB and Zeuke vehicles with spring fixing. The recent couplers have a press fit fixing.
The KKK mechanizm is the Kurz Kupplung Kinematik - close coupling kinematic - what you see on your car up side down.
In 4 axle vehicles the arm of the coupler is somehow coupled with the bogie, ie it moves in curve, and as I wrote, it tries to follow the central line of the track.
On the pictures you can see some examples how the KKK mechanizm looks like what does it in the curves - it extends the distance between the cars, ie they can take easier the tight curves, while on straigth track the distance between the cars will be reduced. Very inpractical for US models.
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby Sventton » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:08 am

Thank you Krokidil.... I understand the KKK now. I thought that the Tillig coupler I show in the photo was the latest version for their stock, and which easily replace the older spring fit Zeuke and BTTB versions. If I understand you correctly, Tillig has a new version with a NEM pocket such as on the Roco car, and those would be interchangeable. I will have to check their newer offerings to see. Getting standardized coupling is very elusive.....
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby krokodil » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:37 am

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Tillig short

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BTTB style


Hi
here are the latest standardized TT couplers for standard NEM pocket. ( should fit every modern cars and locomotives with the NEM pocket).

As the history of TT trains is quite long, there many special versions as well. The list is quite long.

Go to http://www.mbs-sebnitz.de/search?p=1&q=tt+kupplung and find the correct coupler for older or special vehicles. (Different heigth, shaft length and fixing).
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby WillYart » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:36 pm

krokodil wrote:
WillYart wrote:I don't like any of those couplers. I have just put Microscale 1025 N scale couplers on several Tillig starter set cars for my son. They look great, are easy to work with.

I hope the new standard pocket works well with Microscale couplers.


I have also few cars with microscale couplers. Unfortunately the philosophy behind the design of both type couplers is completely different. The European couplers are designed to swing out in curves (trying to follow the center line of the tracks - KKK mechanizm. The microscale couplers expect a rigid fixing (controlled by internal springs) on the cars and can be moved only with external forces around a vertical axle to couple, uncouple the couplers. The European couplers are moving around a horizontal axle during coupling and uncoupling.
This is a conflict, that is the reason I stopped to rebuild my cars (the old BTTB and Zeuke cars were easy to rebuild as they do not have the KKK mechanizm. All new cars have this mechanizm, what is a challenge for microscale or Kadee H0n couplers.


Yes I tear all that unfamiliar stuff off of the car, there are bits and pieces of it scattered on the floor. I don't miss it at all, it looks ugly to me. I mount the Microscale couplers directly, rigidly, to the end of the car.

Since the Microscale couplers are rigid I need a little more space between the cars, so sometimes I have to snip the bumpers off of them.
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby j p » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:20 am

WillYart wrote:Yes I tear all that unfamiliar stuff off of the car, there are bits and pieces of it scattered on the floor. I don't miss it at all, it looks ugly to me. I mount the Microscale couplers directly, rigidly, to the end of the car.

Since the Microscale couplers are rigid I need a little more space between the cars, so sometimes I have to snip the bumpers off of them.


A TT-club in Prague has been using MTL 1015 and 1016 couplers for European models since 2005.
Their www page is in Czech, but the pictures could be used for inspiration

- Jan

http://www.kzm-praha.cz/rady/sprahla.htm
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:46 pm

Kuhn couplers overcome all of Tillig's issues and will mate with Tillig couplers as well ;) Oh and they also mount with a standard shaft. Unfortunately available only from Germany as far as I know.
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby dileTTante » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:04 pm

It looks like the extra feature on Kuehn couplers limits the vertical movement between couplers. This helps keep them together on uneven track. But experience has made me suspect that if the track is particularly bad, one car can lift end of the other car and derail it. When Tibi got serious about leveling our TT Tracks layout uncoupling became a rare occurrence no matter what type was used. I like Roco because a car can be lifted directly off the track while coupled, same as with knuckle type couplers.
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby ConducTTor » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:42 pm

Well, if you have bad track it doesn't matter what you use lol. There is nothing more important to running trains than quality track.
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby krokodil » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:10 am

ConducTTor wrote:Well, if you have bad track it doesn't matter what you use lol. There is nothing more important to running trains than quality track.


That is correct on the other side it is a big challenge on domestic layouts. The new "short or close" couplers are extremely sensitive for the transitions from the level track into a slope. Additionaly a modern long cars make this situation even worse. On my layout the trains assembled from shorter cars have absolutely no problem, while the trains with longer cars have a tendency to uncouple on certain places. That was one of the reasons to replace the modern Tillig short couplers for the older BTTB type.
To avoid such problems the transition curve from level to the slope should be much longer and usually there is no space for such a long transition ( from my experience the transition curve should be longer than 2 of the longest cars).
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Re: Roco Couplers and Tillig's

Postby dileTTante » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:15 am

While rigid coupling is needed for close coupling mechanisms to work as intended, I think Kuehn's method of limiting vertical travel is the wrong approach. Admittedly it improves on Tillig but a better approach would be to allow more vertical movement before uncoupling. I tried Roco couplers because I thought they would give that extra vertical margin. I still like them because they come already assembled. But they didn't help on uneven track.

The photos show a type of coupler which I've seen in nearby freight yards. They don't look like Kadees. They have extended vertical surfaces which allow for more uneven motion between cars. They look weird but it's done for a reason. It's the same reason some use HOn3 Kadees for TT rather than the N scale couplers.

Yes, it's straying from original post but TT couplers are one of my pet peeves.
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