Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length topic

Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length topic

Postby Rich1853 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:12 am

Doing a search on a BR130 diesellok, I came across the following post
berliner-tt-bahnen-library-model-q-a-t401.html#p3100
In the post it was noted that the BTTB model of the BR130 was incorrect, appears too short.
It was compared with photos to the Roco BR132
Yes it is shorter, is it because of a different sub-class?
Note
BR130 has 4 transparent windows mid-ship and 6 grates on the inclined roof.
BR132 has 5 transparent windows mid-ship and 7 grates on the incline roof.
As noted in Wikipedia for the DR Class 130 family the length is listed as 67'7.8" and 68'3.7" respectively a difference of 7.9 inches prototypical (.0658 scale inches, hardly noticeable) because of an addition of electrical heating. Could that be a typo, should that read 7.9 feet? (0.79 scale inches)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_Class_130_family
Now on to the models
Here are the models for the DR Class 130 family in the HO, TT and N scales
http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/BR_130
Note that the Roco 130 102-7 is a sub-class 130.1 (prototype with the addition of electrical heating, only 2 made, 101 and 102)
BTTB list the length over buffers of 130 007-8 as 159 mm (6.26 inches, prototype 62'6")
http://berliner-tt-bahner.de/bin/bttb_f ... 105&mtyp=2
Both Tillig and Roco list their BR 132 (105-8, 099-3 respectively) as 174mm (6.85 inches, prototype 68'5")
a difference of 0.59 inches or 5.9 feet prototypical.
http://as.rumia.edu.pl/tt/kat/katalog.asp?id=02645
https://www.roco.cc/en/product/59798-0- ... ducts.html
Last edited by Rich1853 on Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby MacG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:54 pm

The BTTB 130 is too short and wider than it should have been. On the prototype, the difference in the length between the DR Class 130.0 / 131 and the DR Class 130.1 / 132 / 142 is 200mm or 7.87 inches.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby ConducTTor » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:55 pm

The BTTB is very much incorrect. It was built for a chassis being used on 3 different models - BR130, BR118, NOHAB.

The Tillig/Roco 131s and 231s are a bit wrong but the 132, 232, 234 are good.
If you want a proper 130 or 131, you need a Piko model.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby Rich1853 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:11 pm

Edited and moved below.
Last edited by Rich1853 on Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:34 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby MacG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:47 pm

You here see that the BR 132 has one additional window. Where the BR 130 has a longer closed side wall.

https://www.u-bahn-berlin.de/lok/bilder/232534.jpg

https://www.u-bahn-berlin.de/lok/bilder/130002.jpg

Piko has the 130.0
https://album.tt-pics.de/details.php?image_id=2723

and Roco/Tillig had the 131.1 (it is the same model, Tillig sold the Roco one)
https://album.tt-pics.de/details.php?image_id=2806

You can see there is no big difference in the length. You assume 20mm or 0.79 inches at the model. That isn't it.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby Rich1853 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:31 am

So the actual reason for the discrepancy in the length between the BTTB BR 130 and the Roco BR 132 is that it was made incorrectly not what I thought of being a typo in the length difference on the Wikipedia site, (7.9 prototype inches, 0.0658 inch on the model, not 7.9 feet, 0.79 inch on the model). (which I must admit it does look like that amount). See further below for actually length error.
I looked for internet images and videos of a BR130 locomotive with the 4 windows and 5 roof grates and couldn't locate one. I only found 2 locomotive with 4 windows but it had 6 roof grates it was badge 130 101-7 and 102-7 making it a 130.1 sub-class, the only two made.
So all the models with the 4 windows and 5 roof grates are in reality don't exist in the real world.

The Piko BR130 length is 172mm (6.772 inches, 67.72 feet prototype)
http://www.modellbahn-fokus.de/product/ ... index.html

Piko 172mm - BTTB 159mm = 13mm (0.512 inch)
So the BTTB BR130 is actually 0.512 inch undersized in length.

It would have been so much simpler if the manufacturer's listed length was included in the orginal post.

Sorry for the confusion, I'm only into trains about 14 months, still learning.
Last edited by Rich1853 on Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby krokodil » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:20 pm

In the earlier days ( before 2000) many manufacturers used the Matchbox philosophy, they created some universal chassis and added different bodies. This was very common not only in TT. Additionaly many manufacturers selected the reduction scale also to the their motors or mechanizm. So in H0 you could find model reduction from cca 1:72 to 1:90. This was also one of the reason why the BTTB is wider as the earlier Zeuke motor was bigger in diameter, and the chassis was designed in that age (for the Nohab)
In TT we had only two major manufacturers the Zeuke and the Rokal, and they were also not compatible. :-)
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby j p » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:32 am

krokodil wrote:In TT we had only two major manufacturers the Zeuke and the Rokal, and they were also not compatible. :-)


I cannot agree with this statement! How can you even write something like that on a board which is (mainly) about North American TT? Have you ever heard about Hal Joyce and H.P.Products, Hartford City, Indiana?
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Re: Question,corection to a locked BTTB BR130 Q&A length top

Postby krokodil » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:35 am

j p wrote:
krokodil wrote:In TT we had only two major manufacturers the Zeuke and the Rokal, and they were also not compatible. :-)


I cannot agree with this statement! How can you even write something like that on a board which is (mainly) about North American TT? Have you ever heard about Hal Joyce and H.P.Products, Hartford City, Indiana?


Yes I did, and sorry I did not mentioned them. I also did not mentioned the English TT manufacturer a I have few models from them. They were also not compatible with the German TT models and tracks.....
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