Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby Rob M » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:16 pm

For my next project I want to make up some P.S. passenger sets. I made one up today but it isn't true to any prototypes I've found. It's loosely based on this one, http://www.trainweb.org/rrgifroundhouse/large/pass/DM-PullmanStdCoach.gif but I added the skirt between the trucks. Anyone have any drawings that would be close to the one I made? Preferably with fluted sides, smooth roof and the center skirt.

Also, are the doors supposed to be both on one end or offset? This one has them offset but then the windows don't line up when looking through the side of it.

Dead image links removed.
Last edited by Rob M on Wed May 02, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby MacG » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:41 am

Nice work! The doors are both on one end. Except at the diner and lounge cars.

http://www.thesupplycar.net/passenger-c ... -cars.html
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby scaro » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:47 pm

Hi Rob

Yes, it is difficult to say since the cars varied in all sorts of little ways depending what the RR wanted. These variations are not always apparent. It is kind of pointless, almost, to refer to them as 'foobies' since just about everything offered RTR is inaccurate for most of the paint schemes it is offered in.

I often refer to this series of articles as they give some useful information: http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/

A common type of PS coach seems to have been something called the 7600 plan. However, these seem to have had the fluting only below the windows, but were used on a lot of railroads though. Good posting here lists the owners :
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/192493.aspx

Coaches seem to have been sold quite a lot, particularly after the mid 60s as some RRs exited the passenger business and others like the SCL, and GN, who were more committed to passenger business, bought them.

I think the guiding principle would be to pick a prototype coach built for a particular RR and stick to it. The only other criteria would be that Amtrak used it ... then anyone modelling post 1971 has an excuse to have it on their pike!

One that looks reasonable is the Walthers PS 64 seat design, plan 7484. Jerry LaBoda (who seems to know a lot about these things, noted that the NYC design was also sold to PRR and LI. And Amtrak inherited scores of them. These cars were a little unusual in having a very different window pattern on each side.

A similar design but with the window design mirrored on each side (a bit simpler) was owned by MKT and SLSF. Also in a 52 seat 'smoker lounge' version owned by SAL and RF&P -with one extra small window near the vestibule). MKT and SLSF sold theirs to GN, NP, BN. Many ended up under Amtrak.

Corrugation was removed from many used in commuter service and skirting as well, particularly the centre skirting.

I am wondering if the latter 64 seat /52 seat smoker lounge version of the PS coach is about the nearest thing to a 'standard' PS corrugated coach ?

The thread's here on the N Scale Varnish list: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/N-s ... opics/5411

One thing not to model is the Rokal coaches done in TT, something very similar was offered by Minitrix/Model Power ... so far as I know they are German 'interpretations' of American passenger stock, and nothing like them existed.

Ben
Last edited by scaro on Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby Rob M » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:49 pm

Great site MacG! Almost too many choices :doh:
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby Rob M » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:55 pm

Thanks for the info Ben. One of my goals here is to NOT make it into your foobie list :lol:
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby scaro » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:37 am

most of the coaches are not foobies, except the minitrix/rokal oddities. i think most passenger cars offered are correct for something that ran somewhere, just not in all paint schemes they are offered in.

you have to feel sorry for the manufacturers. as regards RTR there is simply no way you can do a coach and sell it in only the correct paint scheme and make your money, unless you are in HO or N and plan on offering a collectors edition complete broadway limited or california zephyr, for example.

usually the window arrangement varies and most of the rest of the vehicle is 'about right'.

i only count something as a foobie if nothing like it existed on the planet and it's impossible to make it right.

i don't think there's much shame in things being in the foobie list ... it's just about having a heads up that an HO model is not right as the basis for a TT one, before someone gets involved in something serious, cutting dies etc. I've seen people who knew the information sit back and let an incorrect model get released, then sneer about it. that's crazy.
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby gerhard_k » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:41 pm

Rob M wrote:For my next project I want to make up some P.S. passenger sets. I made one up today

I'm just amazed - "I made one up today" just like that - is this machined the same way as your gondolas? I would definitely be on your customer list for a set of these. What do you do for trucks?
But at the risk of being drummed out of the corps, this brings up one of my pet peeves: All the German layouts proudly showing off on youtube their oh-so-prototypical passenger cars running through EW1 turnouts and turning at 45-degree angles between cars on their 310mm radius. In HO, I was using Athearn and Rivarossi 60-foot standard cars, and ConCor 70-foot streamliners, because they look much more harmonious on 24-inch curves even if they are not to (length) scale; the whole train just looks better in our model environment. But I know I'm in the minority here, many of the European HO manufacturers used to offer shortened cars (they called it 1:100 scale, but obviously only in length) but don't any longer, apparently the sales weren't there.
So if you should decide to make some 70-footers, I'd be all over those; but at scale length I'd still buy a set.
And thanks for your creativity and dedication to the cause, Rob.
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby Rob M » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:12 pm

Yep, these are made by the same process as the gondolas and boxcars, except I am using .040" styrene for the sides.

While researching these cars I did run across a mention of one of the railroads using shorter passenger cars. Can't remember where I found it or which railroad right now. Either way, I could make some of them shorter.

I also made the trucks (available on my site). They are GSC 41-N "Commonwealth" Passenger Trucks, http://www.spookshow.net/trucks/cw4pass.html They seem to be fairly common for this era.
Dead image links removed.

Can't have a passenger car set without an observation car :dance:
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby scaro » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:53 pm

i think this issue is gone into on the trainweb site for prototypes of N passenger cars; CNW and SOO had 60' heavyweight coaches. they weren't alone, for example this Georgia Railroad one: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga-co71ads.jpg

i have found some listings on santa fe sites of 1937 built club lounge and club lounge chair cars 73'6" long. i'd heard speculation that the rokal or model power cars are based on these? if so, they are very crude representations.

the issue of shorty passenger cars does remind me that if i elected to use prototype curvature in TT, i could probably use regauged athearn trucks to power locos and proto length passenger cars would be no issue.

... but there would be no visiting other people's layouts and running equipment on them.
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Re: Pullman Standard Passenger cars

Postby Rob M » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:13 am

I've decided to go with the 1951 Santa Fe Super Chief for a prototype. The Pleasure Dome car will be a challenge but I think I can pull it off. Some great photos here http://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/054736/HO-Brass-Model-Train-CIL-2149-1S-ATSF-Santa-Fe-1951-Super-Chief-10-Car-Set-A1-B1
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