Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby railtwister » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:42 pm

emckay7067 wrote:Anyway, I get the feeling that you all would rather reinvent the wheel with TT drives (been there, done that) so I am bowing out.


Hi Elmer,

Not so, the last thing we want to do is reinvent anything. But, I for one want something that runs well, like something from current HO & N scale offerings, not like something from the fifties. I am convinced that achieving this will require all-wheel pickup, proper gearing, and a decent motor(s), probably with flywheels. Having room for DCC and sound would also be a plus.

Your input is needed here, without it we would probably have missed the fact that Hollywood Foundry has drives other than ones with the motor mounted on top of the truck (ala the old Varney HO diesel drives from the late 40's & early 50's.

Are any of the PVM kits still available now that you are building an HO layout? Did you mention that you had done a TT scale GE 44 tonner? That's one of my favorites...

Regards,
Bill in FL
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby ConducTTor » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:20 pm

Elmer, please don't check out on us. Your experience is HUGE. I dOn't think we're reinventing the wheel. I see it more as trying to find our way while looking for improvements to the current "state of the union".
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby emckay7067 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:03 am

Alex, I'm not going to bow out of the forum, just out of this thread for awhile.

Bill, I had wanted to do a GE 44 ton loco, but that has been dropped.
Also, if you had looked at what Hollywood Foundry is offering, you would have found that ALL of your wants in a drive are there; four wheel drive, four wheel pick up, a range of small reliable can motors with or without flywheels, 15:1 OR 30:1 gearing, gear drive or belt drive, plus dummy trucks with electrical pick ups, the number of axles in a unit range from 1 to 4. All available with different wheelbase availability and different wheel size availability. So what your post told me is, that even though I have provided a link to the site, given some information about what they make, NO ONE HAS ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO GO LOOK.

As to the future of Possum Valley Models; Some TT stuff will still be available, but there is a factor that has come into play, and that is the availability of HP wheel sets. About five or more years ago I purchased 4000 wheels that would make 2000 wheel sets that would be used for trucks. These are now depleted. The few that are left are going into the next series of kits I am getting ready to make available. Once they are gone I am going to start turning things over to the TT Scale Society. This is being done so that TT scale can continue without relying on just one or two individual manufacturers, but a group of people in a Society. The Coastal Engineering molds and masters (which I have) will also be turned over to the Society. The last(?) new product that I am working on is the Alco FA and FB shell kits. The kits will include the main body shell, truck side frames, and detail parts (Horns, steps, etc.), a pattern for making a chassis, and the specifications for ordering a Hollywood foundry drive kit, along with a set of general instructions. They should be available in the fall of this year. Expected price is to be $15 to $20 per kit, but I have not done the final calculations yet.

Elmer.
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby railtwister » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:31 pm

emckay7067 wrote:

So what your post told me is, that even though I have provided a link to the site, given some information about what they make, NO ONE HAS ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO GO LOOK.


Elmer.


Hi Elmer,

You are right, I guess I am guilty as charged. Up to this point I hadn't looked at the website in several years, because until you posted the link, discussions on the list had indicated that the original Bull Ant drive with the truck mounted motor probably wasn't suitable for the narrow hood units. After you posted the link, I planned to check it out, but just haven't gotten to it yet. Most of my modeling time (and money) in the past few months has been consumed by building (and ordering the tracks for) enough Table Top TT modules to at least have a test loop, and that activity has been severely curtailed more recently by having to get some home repairs done (hopefully that will be done in a week or so). I DO still plan to look at the site once I figure out what I can use such as wheel size and wheelbase, etc. In the meantime, I AM interested in your FA units. Didn't Kemtron make some FA's in cast brass many years ago? I seem to recall they were made a bit taller than scale height in order to accommodate the motors of the day. but I can't remember if they were FA-1's or FA-2's.

Regards,
Bill
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby Arseny » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:40 pm

In my opinion - as Chairman Mao said :) - "Let a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend" :)

About ALCO FA: did you see the A&K (?) locos?

Image

Image

Image

But I am afraid they are VERY expensive...

About the wheels: why not use Gold Coast's wheels and trucks?
And also why not use RUSSIAN wheels and/or trucks? They are looking like American, although the wheels are a little bit bigger that Gold Coast's ones...
http://www.ttnut.com/temporary-baggage-car-t460.html?hilit=baggage#p6075

I am sure that Peresvet will be happy to sell some wheels and trucks to you...
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:24 pm

@ Elmer

I've looked at the HF products. I was initially turned off by the prices and have ended up with a lot of savings doing things my own way. It's also allowed me to have zero design considerations imposed on me by doing a custom truck/transmission/chassis.

Having said that, their products could and may be used on future models depending on the design solution.
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby scaro » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:57 am

emckay7067 wrote:17mm in TT scales out to 6 foot 6 inches actual size.

I have the Model Railroader Cyclopedia Diesel Locomotives book. I just went through it and about 90% of the locomotives used power trucks with a wheelbase greater than 6' 6". There are exceptions, and these are the small switchers and some Odd ball type locos with asymmetrical three axle trucks that are not considered mainstream locomotives in the USA. Some are close enough that you can fudge. Even the small GE 44 Ton loco has trucks with a wheelbase of 6' 10".

.


my bad. i'd thought more US locos had trucks with spacings less than 6'6". sorry, was thinking with my australian outline hat on.
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby scaro » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:16 am

scaro wrote:


One thing I did have a look at tonight was the measurements of a few N locos which might be candidates. Graham Farish (Bachmann UK) do this in N which scales to 9'3" or 9'4" wheelbase and actually has 3'4" wheels:

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/in ... topic=5392

Now what makes this interesting is the fact it is an outside frame loco ... the axles extend through the frames and out to the crankshafts. This may mean it can be regauged to 12mm. Note I say may, I only have one and I'm not game to pull it to bits.


i got one of these 0-6-0 shunters and unfortunately it's useless as a chassis unit. the loco is driven from the centre axle, conveying to the outer wheelsets by rods, so if you take the middle axle out, it is not powered any more.

scaro wrote:

Another candidate for a chassis - the Atlas N C628 / C630. A true N scale C628 /C630 would, near as i can calculate, be spot on for a TT scale GP7 in distance between truck centres, and would have 8'10" wheelbase trucks. I don't own one to measure the model itself, or to pull apart to see what potential it has...
Ben


i have the atlas C630 trucks. a conversion looks possible. you need 8.4mm wheels with 1mm stub axles to fit in the gear muffs. pickups need respacing. the truck is 23.7mm, with the centre wheels removed, that works out to a 9'4" wheelbase B truck. looks like the best candidate.
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby Richard-B » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 am

Just a reminder... Common US Diesel truck wheelbases:

4-axle:
AAR type "A" trucks - Wheelbase 8'-00".
AAR type "B" trucks - Wheelbase 9'-04" with GE traction motors
AAR type "B" trucks - Wheelbase 9'-10" with Westinghouse traction motors.
BLOMBERG type "B" - Wheelbase 9'-00".
BLOMBERG type "M" - Wheelbase 9'-00".

6-axle:
FLEXICOIL "C" truck - Wheelbase 13'-07" (6'-09 1/2" and 6'-09 1/2")
HTC TRUCKS - Wheelbase of 13'-08"
EMD A-1-A passenger trucks - Wheelbase 14'-01"

...distilled from: http://www.hosam.com/emd/ewhb.html
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Re: Producing a new US style loco in TT scale

Postby scaro » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:05 am

to get an exact 9' wheelbase truck in TT you'd need something in N with an overall 12' wheelbase. that equates to either a short wheelbse C- truck or a very long B- one.

from that table, (thanks for posting it, btw) we will be waiting until someone does an SDL39 before there will be a truck that is spot on.

someone on trainboard scouted for interest but as there were only ten units ever built, for one RR, i don't think it happened.

brawa and others do BR119 and other former East German designs that have 6' 6' trucks but they aren't hood units, and i don't know if they have the same easily regaugable design as Atlas do.
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