Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby milwrd1 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:15 pm

Bernd wrote: "Wanting to see how the height will work out I used two 2" thick pieces for the logging camp area. The switch back will use one 2" piece. Looks like the grades are going to be steep. IIRC the Cass Railroads last grade was at 13%."

The grades will be steep. The Gum Stump and Snowshoe is also listed in "Track Planning Ideas from Model Railroader, 58 track plans from past issues". The HO railroad was built on a 1 foot x 6 foot plank with grades in the 9-10% range. Since you've chosen a length of 8 feet, considering siding length, the grades could be less.
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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby Bernd » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:51 pm

milwrd1 wrote:The grades will be steep. The Gum Stump and Snowshoe is also listed in "Track Planning Ideas from Model Railroader, 58 track plans from past issues". The HO railroad was built on a 1 foot x 6 foot plank with grades in the 9-10% range. Since you've chosen a length of 8 feet, considering siding length, the grades could be less.


Yes those grades will be steep, but remember the engine will only be pulling empty cars up the grade. Just like at Cass railroad. Empties upgrade, loaded down grade.

I found this info on the route to Bald Knob. The steepest grade on the line is 8%. I was wrong about the 13%, but not by much.

Link to PDF info. : http://www.cassrailroad.com/CASS%20TRACK%20GUIDE.pdf

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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby Bernd » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:02 pm

Finally figured out how to do the curved grade section. I was scratching my head wondering how I was going to get a nice smooth curve and grade up 2".

I put a piece of paper under where the track is going to be and drew some lines following the cork roadbed.

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Cut out the traced part and placed on a piece of 2"thick foam. Drew some freehand lines.

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Cut out the contour on a bandsaw.

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Next head scratcher was getting a smooth grade from 2" down to 0" near the turnout. A piece of cork makes for a nice flexible tool to be able to draw a grade on the side of the foam.

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Back to the bandsaw to cut the grade.

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Not quite good enough. Going to have to try that again tomorrow. Enough for tonight.

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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:13 pm

Nice way to do that. Just a bit more accurate and it's there.
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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby Bernd » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:45 am

ConducTTor wrote:Nice way to do that. Just a bit more accurate and it's there.


Needs a bit of tweaking. Would have done that last night but I know the wife wouldn't have appreciated the bandsaw running when she's trying to get her beauty sleep. :snooty:

I did a quick calculation to find the grade. It's a 22" run, with a rise of 2". Comes out to be a 9.09% grade. The Cass Scenic railroad had an 8.7% grade on one point in there run to Bald Knob. So I'm close to prototype. Yeah :dance:

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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby gerhard_k » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:11 pm

Bernd wrote:I did a quick calculation to find the grade. It's a 22" run, with a rise of 2". Comes out to be a 9.09% grade.

Bernd


Don't forget about the "vertical curve" at the beginning and end of the grade. Without one, your engines may high-center or hang up their pilots/cow catchers, and your couplers will certainly vertically unlatch.

From various forum postings and some alleged trials, the conventional guideline is 1% of grade change per car length - that means even for say 25-foot (2.5") cars, the guideline would want all of your 22" grade length for just >one< of the 2 vertical curves!! :doh:

I would advise doing some mock-up experiments, with your very short equipment you may be able to get away with being much more abrupt. Let us know what you find out, would be helpful for many of us.
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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby Bernd » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:54 pm

gerhard_k wrote:I would advise doing some mock-up experiments, with your very short equipment you may be able to get away with being much more abrupt. Let us know what you find out, would be helpful for many of us.


That will take some time as I have yet to design and build the log cars. The engine will take a while also. I will post once I do a test run that's for sure.

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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby TinGoat » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:48 pm

Here's a bit of information on creating vertical easements for grades.

I worked with a group to create On30 Module Standards which included 4% grades.

The first illustration shows radii for different grade easements. Take it from experience: It's important that the transition at the top of the grade is more gentle than at the bottom.
Vcurv_exm_2.jpg

I had equipment uncoupling at the top of a steep 4% grade and rolling back down the hill until I fixed the easement at the top.

This is a little doodle that I made for how you might draw a grade easement.
gradetransition.gif
gradetransition.gif (4.57 KiB) Viewed 419 times


This is a blurb that Geren W. Mortensen, Jr. did to illustrate the need for vertical curve easements.
OCUM_VERT_CURVE.pdf
(503.73 KiB) Downloaded 238 times


Lastly, I switched from using cork directly on styrofoam to using cork on 1/8" plywood for grades. The thin plywood is like using the "bent stick" method for creating easements.

Or, you could cough up the $7:00 for the Woodland Scenics Incline Starters
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/item/INCLDECLSTART/page/1
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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby Bernd » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:39 pm

Thanks Ron. I'll take a look at all your info.

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Re: Otter Creek Falls Coal & Lumber Rwy

Postby gerhard_k » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:25 pm

TinGoat wrote:
Or, you could cough up the $7.00 for the Woodland Scenics Incline Starters
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/item/INCLDECLSTART/page/1


Actually, if you look at their diagram, these go straight into the 2% etc. slope, there is no transition / vertical curve. Carefully worded: "Each piece in a package elevates/lowers the track to/from a designated number of inches within a 24 inch stretch, allowing for a smooth transition from one *height* (my emphasis) to another."
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