New to TT and the forums

Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby milwrd1 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:28 pm

Hi Brad, and welcome to the group :thumbup:

areibel wrote:There's a lot of interesting stuff happening at TT, I like to think we're making some progress and not just floating along!
And there's a lot of experience right here on this board, so if you have any questions just ask!
Al


I agree with Al's comment as quoted above. Much interesting stuff is happening in TT today. It's slow, but things are happening!! We are making progress, probably the best evidence is the recent availability of the SW1200 engine from Sazmodel / MTB. It certainly is not as gloomy or dismal as others may believe. Working in TT scale can be very rewarding, if you enjoy building models, since the size (1/120) is just about perfect. Good for placing a moderate sized layout in a spare bedroom, and large enough to build models where the details are noticed.
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby Seligman Sub » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:08 pm

A belated thanks to all for the warm welcome. The “state of the hobby” and the hobby manufacturing business is pretty interesting. I’m sure it’s been discussed ad nausea here (and other boards) if TT suffers from a “chicken or egg” syndrome. I’ve read on various boards and even casual conversation with other modelers in the past discussing TT that many modelers would be interested in TT if there was availability of NA prototypes. It’s anecdotal, but I do think that there is a viable market for TT if only we could get a manufacturer or two to jump in. It’d be a daunting task to be sure. I think you’d have to be prepared to offer several models at once for the initial release and perhaps as many as a couple dozen within the first 18-24 months; in other words you’d have to build critical mass quickly. Personally if I were doing that I’d make initial offerings in the contemporary and transition eras since they seem to be the most popular.

Since that’s highly unlikely (I didn’t win the powerball last week!), 3D printing sure does offer some tantalizing possibilities in the mid to long term. My brother forwarded me a manufacturing industry pub that had an article about a next generation FDM (I think) printer that’s capable of printing to 1200dpi in all three axis and 6 million colors. If they can get the finish down to approaching injection molding the possibility are truly tantalizing. Imagine printing a model with “paint” and weathering already complete? Anyway, my first TT model arrives today, anxiously waiting on the mailman…
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby j p » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:13 pm

Bernd wrote:
One thing missing to run all those "wanted" NA models is flexible track in NA prototype form. But at over $10,000 or so for an injection mold it won't be happening very soon.

Bernd


I have mentioned this many times, most people know about it. Only Bernd keeps writing about "missing NA flexible track".
No problem, I can repeat it again and again: Laser cut NA flexible track is available from Art&Detail, even in several versions of tie spacing.
Bernd replied last time that he meant a "cheap" NA flexible track. OK, but then please write it in your post clearly and don't mislead the newest member of NA-TT community.

Bernd, it is great that you work on your own cheaper solution. I just find it not very nice when you keep ignoring your competitor's product.

AD_track.jpg

AD_track2.jpg
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby areibel » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Well JP, you just ignored Sazmodels tie strips?
You are a very good publicist for A&D, maybe you can help him get the word out better? If you go to his website you get one page, in German, that will not translate automatically. I know that you can email Michael and get a quote, and I have a copy of his pricelist somewhere but why not have a functioning website with prices on it for new people that don't know that?
And wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy ready to use flextrack, instead of having to order the tie strips from one place and the rail from somewhere else? You said once before that you were more interested in the locomotives and rolling stock and you weren't that concerned with building your own track- a lot of guys think the same way. If I ever get to build a big layout, I don't want to hand lay all the track.. I'm too lazy! Maybe some in certain special areas, but the more ready to use track I can use the better! And price does matter, not everyone has your TT budget!
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby j p » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:20 pm

areibel wrote:Well JP, you just ignored Sazmodels tie strips?
You are a very good publicist for A&D, maybe you can help him get the word out better? If you go to his website you get one page, in German, that will not translate automatically. I know that you can email Michael and get a quote, and I have a copy of his pricelist somewhere but why not have a functioning website with prices on it for new people that don't know that?
And wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy ready to use flextrack, instead of having to order the tie strips from one place and the rail from somewhere else? You said once before that you were more interested in the locomotives and rolling stock and you weren't that concerned with building your own track- a lot of guys think the same way. If I ever get to build a big layout, I don't want to hand lay all the track.. I'm too lazy! Maybe some in certain special areas, but the more ready to use track I can use the better! And price does matter, not everyone has your TT budget!


No I did not ignore SAZ model (Bernd did), I did not write that Art&Detail was the only one.
Michael sells the track incl. the rails. Code 40/70/100.
I mentioned him because I am just trying to make my order ready. It is not easy for me to select the correct version of SD40 and SD45 :grin:
And, of course, I would prefer a high quality mass produced RTR track system with injection molded ties. That is just not available (yet). Until then I can live with HP Products rails and Star Line wooden ties and European style track for the rest.
The budget and time also matters for me.
I am not sure about the web. I have asked for a new catalog and I've got it. If he wanted to post it here, he could have done it self. I'll him for a permission :grin:
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby j p » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:28 pm

Bernd, you don't have to mention anyone. That was not the point. Just stop writing that flexible track does not exist.
That way you can avoid my annoying comments.
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby CSD » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:31 am

Hello, Brad. Welcome to the site!

As you can probably tell, there is some heated debate on the topic of track. It's not flex track, but might as well include Clover House's track building supplies too, while we're at it.

Getting back to your original post, $10,000.00 for production of commercial quality plastic flex track is in alighnment with my own inquiries. About $5000.00 for the flex strip moulds and anothe $5000.00 for the track rollers. One could use readily made track from one of the other manufacturers to offset the cost, however; you still need to pay for materials and labour. If you could get 1000 pieces made for $10,000, you'd be getting a pretty good deal.

Unfortunately, the number of people in North America actually building something in TT does not support this kind of production. For myself there is a bright side. If I wanted TT scale to be like HO or N I'd just go model in those scales. There is pleasure in doing more with less and putting your own stamp on the hobby. Sorry to sound like a snob, but as I roll up my sleaves and build kits, lay trackwork and scratchbuild, I feel more like a real modeler than someone who just takes things out of boxes.
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby Seligman Sub » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:37 pm

Bernd wrote:
The statement above isn't going to happen is my perception. Here's why I think that. Even the large manufacturers are having problems selling. You'll notice in their advertisements, "limited run". Meaning they'll do enough to make a profit and be assured of sales.

The way I see the scale progressing is through making the public aware there is even a scale between N and HO. Many modelers I have made mention give me a kind of puzzled look when I mention TT scale. I have yet to see an article in one of the major magazines on TT scale in the US. One way of getting TT scale in the hands of the public would be through garage type entrepreneurs. There are a couple on this forum, plus me. Making small lots of rolling stock and so forth would be a start.


Yes limited production runs are the nature of the beast anymore. Injection molding tooling is so damn expensive (I’ve heard anywhere from $100-$250k just for tooling for a locomotive) plus the production costs are rising so you’re looking at possibly in the seven figures to bring product to market. I’d hate to think of the initial capital you’d need to make a serious run at bringing TT scale to the market. You’d have to be willing to perhaps lose money the first few years before you’d recoup even your initial investment and you’re also probably looking at an initial investment approaching eight figures to introduce 4 locos types and a 10-15 types of rolling stock (yes I know you could go with less). Unless I was extremely wealthy there’s no business case here. But I still feel that if there was such a benefactor TT would carve out a healthy niche.

Bernd wrote:
I see lot's of transitional area models in HO or first generation diesels. Steamers would be a little harder to produce.


Diesels are easy but steamers are a PITA even in HO. Too much road to road variation. I’m a modern guy with passing interest in steam so I’d have to defer to those more knowledgeable so I’d have no idea what to introduce that would be a good choice. UP “super steam” would probably sell well but would hardly suffice for your average transition era modeler I’d imagine.

Bernd wrote:
3D printing is great for prototyping but not for production. I've seen the 3D machines that turn out products that look like they were injection molded, but take quite a while to print out. What needs to be done here is a master made with 3D so a mold can be made.


We’re basically on the same page. 3D printing is not viable for any sort of large volume production at the moment (and may never) but it is getting faster and better in resolution. I think we’ll see distributed manufacturing become quite prevalent and I’m firmly of the opinion that we’ll see many MRR vendors offering digital products. Perhaps someone here will be enterprising enough to offer chassis/mechanism kits or in RTR form and all we’d have to do is go down to the local DDM version of kinkos and pickup our shell and detail parts. They may already be correctly “painted” and weathered and all we’d have to do is assemble the model, pop in our receiver or decoder and we’re done. Now I don’t think for a second that TT will be the driver in the model railroading arena of DDM but it certainly will benefit. For a fairly nominal fee, many products can be resized to whatever scale you want (theoretically).

Admittedly without a robust RTR catalogue it may be tough to bring in as many modelers as we’d like. Which is why I still think flex track and perhaps turnouts in code 55 made to NA standards is important. Especially if you’d like to build a medium to large layout which is something TT, like N scale should be good for. Anyway, forgive my blabbering, I’m still the FNG of TT scale. I’m looking forward to challenges ahead!
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:19 pm

Seligman Sub wrote:perhaps turnouts in code 55 made to NA standards is important


Ok, here you go http://sazmodel.myshopify.com/collectio ... lh-turnout
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Re: New to TT and the forums

Postby gaborden » Mon May 25, 2015 1:55 pm

Greetings folks -
Following the introduction ... and noticed that you failed to mention DnS TT track. They provide flex track and turnouts that are great.
BTW, went to the SazModels web site and site says Saz is closed.... what happened?
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