NA on German FKTT Modules

Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby MacG » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:02 pm

We will use at a module-layout the TWC and I would add ABS for the tracks between the stations.

The plan with 58mm distance between the middle of the tracks near the passenger station. I think also about the necessity of the second turnout for the grain elevator.
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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby Zs12 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 am

MacG wrote:I think also about the necessity of the second turnout for the grain elevator.

I would say yes, the left turnout could be removed. But comparing the 2nd and the 3rd track plan, in my opinion, to place the station building right at the main track was better.
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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby jpachl » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:52 am

MacG wrote:We will use at a module-layout the TWC and I would add ABS for the tracks between the stations.

Since in NA operation, a station in the European sense (German: Bahnhof) and a distinction between station and open line does not exist, what do you mean with the term station? The track layout of a single module?

I think, TWC is really a good way to operate a modular layout. If you like to have some block signals, I would recommend ABS overlayed by TWC, i.e., movement authority is provided by track warrants, while following trains are protected by ABS. Since ABS will keep the trains safely apart, the dispatcher can issue overlapping track warrants for trains running in the same direction. In ABS territory, automatic block signals and track circuits are only needed on the main track. You can place them more or less whereever you want regardless of the location of switches. Maybe, a pair of block signals somewhere in the middle of your module would be sufficient. Apart from switches within interlocking limits (however, as I understand your track plan, there are no interlockings), all switches are hand operated and not interlocked with signals. The siding is a non-controlled one without a track circuit. Trains enter and leave the siding over hand operated switches at restricted speed. The entire track layout of your modules should be in yard limits. The yard limit signs may be placed at both sides of the module before the first switches. Within yard limits, yard moves may enter the main track without authority from the dispatcher. The dispatcher only authorizes train moves passing through the yard limits on the main track. This simplifies switching operations a lot. As long all switches in the main track are in the closed position and the track is clear, all automatic block signals will show a proceed aspect. However, different from interlocking signals, switches are not positively locked by a cleared signal. If a switch is moved to open position, signals protecting the block in which the switch is located will turn to stop, and signals in approach to these signals will turn to an approach aspect. So, within yard limits, it may happen that a signal turns from green to yellow or even to red in front of an approaching train. That is, why within yard limits, a yellow aspect does not just mean approach but to slow down and proceed at restricted speed. In such a case, the train engineer must be prepared to stop short of vehicles that may have entered the main track without authority from the dispatcher. This surely adds some fun to the operation of a modular layout. Train engineers must not follow track warrants and signal aspects but also yard limit rules.

If you have your first draft of a bigger module arrangement for a FKTT meeting, I will gladly give some more advice of the operating principles.

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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:17 am

That's really interesting stuff Joern. I've never been a part of a big operation layout so I have no idea about these things. When I look at pictures of the various module meets on tt-board, I assume some of the above is happening?
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Re: AW: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby jpachl » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:02 am

ConducTTor wrote:When I look at pictures of the various module meets on tt-board, I assume some of the above is happening?

It is. I have some friends in the Fremo scene who built large module arrangements following both European and North American prototypes. Some time ago, there was a North American module meeting in Germany, in which the dispatcher was located in Denmark. During the operating session, he was controlling train movements on a modular layout several hundred kilometres away by track warrants issued via telephone. Since the players came from different European countries, all conversation was made in English.

When the FKTT people in Dresden have reached a state that they will have their first operating session, I could imagine to do the dispatching in a similar way from Braunschweig. However, as a former Dresden resident, I still visit the city from time to time. Maybe, I will also build a small module to take part in module meetings.

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Re: AW: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby jpachl » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:01 am

I have a question on the size of the modules. The smaller modules at the right side are just 40 cm wide. I thought the standard width of FKTT modules was 50 cm. Does a smaller width still comply with the standard?

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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby MacG » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm

@jpachl: There is no width written in the FKTT-standard. You can choose the width. The smaller module must be connectable to a another module and it must have a safety area of 10cm beside the track.

I have understood your explanation, but I will use German for the further advice.

@lüTTe: I would remove the right turnout. For space for the station at the mainline I will shorten the brown track.
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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby Zs12 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:28 am

Why removing the right turnout, while the main siding for switching inside the yard extends at the right side?

And the brown track for local turns can be left as it was in the 2nd track plan. Another option would be to place only the platform at the main track, so that passengers have to cross the main siding or the siding for the locals. I'm not sure as for NA but I think both isn't non-prototypical for small yards.
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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby MacG » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:37 pm

You were right with the grain track. I have changed it. The depot/station is probably prototypical placed at the main track, because of the handing over the train order to the engineer. I don't like the 2nd track plan with the bow around the station.

Plan 9 is attached.
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Re: NA on German FKTT Modules

Postby Zs12 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:17 pm

MacG wrote:I don't like the 2nd track plan with the bow around the station.

I like such crooked track sections. They are much more common, than one would think and always an interesting detail in real yards. :smile:

The new plan looks also okay, but now you've significant less siding length respectively space for switching.
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