Motor Possibility

Re: Motor Possibility

Postby krokodil » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:58 pm

CFRiad wrote:Shut up, CFRiad.



The former relies heavily on previous experience, the already-tested solutions


You forgot to add the calculation. If one solution has less friction, requires less power why to change it for the another one? Look at the watches or clocks - small one - big one, all use gears and noone use belt drives, however the belt was invented earlier as the cog wheel: :-)
Last edited by krokodil on Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:45 pm

I don’t see the point of the endless argument. Everyone has said their piece once - leave it at that. No one is forced to adopt Bernd’s methods and he equally has the freedom to persue his own solution.

Everyone, go build what you think is best. If you choose to sell it to others, they will either buy it or not. Simple.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Bernd » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:24 pm

ConducTTor wrote:I don’t see the point of the endless argument. Everyone has said their piece once - leave it at that. No one is forced to adopt Bernd’s methods and he equally has the freedom to persue his own solution.

Everyone, go build what you think is best. If you choose to sell it to others, they will either buy it or not. Simple.


Thank you Boss. Well said. :thumbup:

On to the project. I will post my results in another post.

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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Bernd » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:13 pm

krokodil wrote:Bernd
The last two pictures are showing an interesting construction. If you find a flat motor what you can embed into the frame bellow the longitudional axle would be nice. From the motor up to the axle you can make a reduction of 1:2-1:3, and the rest can be done on the worm gears. Probably you can also lift the axle closer to the hood roof to gain more place for the motor bellow.


While we were discussing other items in this thread I was busy working on seeing if what krokodil mentioned would work. I got close but no cigar. I'll explain each of the pictures.

A side view of Brain's (ConnRiver) motor. I removed the gear and left the motors shafts their original lengths.

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Note the slots in the motor mounting bracket. They are for adjusting the belt tension I had planned on using.

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Bottom view of the motor secured to the motor mount.

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It's a great idea and looks pretty cool. problem one is the motor is to large on the rounded diameter part. It would not allow the fuel tank to be mounted onto the chassis. Also it was difficult to properly mount the tank in the proper position between the wheels. The worst part is how flexible the .020" thick chassis is at the point where the motor fits through the hole. I think a thicker chassis might have worked, but do to the first two problems I'm not going to pursue this build any further.

My thought is that a motor mounted where the line shaft is now would be the best way to go if using tower drives. I'm going to pursue what is known as a tank drive. The motor will be mounted on the chassis with a drop-box located in the middle of the chassis and the drive shafts to a worm and worm wheel mounted on the truck, such as the Hobbytown drives.

I have to think of two Thomas Edison (the guy that invented the light bulb) quotes.

Number one: I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Number two: Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Richard-B » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:26 am

Bernd wrote:<snip> a motor mounted where the line shaft is now would be the best way to go if using tower drives.
This has been industry practice for five decades or more...

There certainly may be OTHER mousetraps... but not BETTER mousetraps.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby krokodil » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:21 am

Bernd

If you have that much space above the horizontal axle (as on the picture) why you do not lift up the whole axle? The motor can be fixed to the main frame and will not interfere with the fuel tank. The horizontal axle does not need to be in line with the universals on the gear tower.
Originally I thought that you want to use a coreless motor, what is smaller in diameter.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Bernd » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:12 am

Richard-B wrote:
Bernd wrote:<snip> a motor mounted where the line shaft is now would be the best way to go if using tower drives.
This has been industry practice for five decades or more...

There certainly may be OTHER mousetraps... but not BETTER mousetraps.


This has been industry practice for five decades or more...
This sounds like the place I used to work. "Hey we've been doing it that way ever since..........." Guess what, the factory almost closed because of thinking that way.

This is me. Number two: Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.

I just might find the BETTER mousetrap. :dance: :wink:

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Last edited by Bernd on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Bernd » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:18 am

krokodil wrote:Bernd

If you have that much space above the horizontal axle (as on the picture) why you do not lift up the whole axle?

I wanted to keep the U-joint drive shafts as straight as possible to keep vibration down.

Originally I thought that you want to use a coreless motor, what is smaller in diameter.


I wanted to see how the motor Brain had specified would work out. I'm looking into using the coreless next. I'm going to have to make a new chassis frame first. This may take a while.

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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby krokodil » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:44 am

I just might find the BETTER mousetrap


Do not forget to consult this with a mouse. :boohoo:
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Re: Motor Possibility

Postby Richard-B » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:09 pm

Bernd wrote: This sounds like the place I used to work. "Hey we've been doing it that way ever since..........." Guess what, the factory almost closed because of thinking that way.
Bernd...
Don't get me wrong; I -like- the 'investigations' you are doing...

But you mis-characterize my comment;
This is not the case of blindly following a market leader... i.e. "We'll do it just the way they do... But cheaper!"... This is decades of INDUSTRY consensus... where many alternatives have been tried, put into production, and FAILED (in the commercial sense).

Among the examples are: Rubber-band drive, metal band drive, toothed belt drive, tank drive (sub-floor motor), motor per truck, vertical motor per truck, motor per axle, etc...

Add to that mix the less-than-satisfactory alternatives to the 'sliding cardan shaft + universal joints' motor to gearbox attachment solution which include: rubber tubes (surgical tube or fuel hose), spring tubes and magnetic coupling...

So... this is not an industry case of failure to innovate; It is an industry de-facto standard based on what has actually been successful. That said... with good engineering and fabrication technique... ANY of these solutions can be realized and 'made to work'...
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