modified Tillig turnout

modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Thu May 08, 2014 5:52 pm

As an experiment I have modified a Tillig EW3 turnout, making it a closing frog style.

The unwanted plastic was removed, along with the inner rails. I shaped new rails taken from N scale flex track which was waiting for years to be sacrificed for something like this. I put temporary cross pieces in between the ties and positioned the new rails, then dropped in super glue. That kept the two rails together when I took them out and soldered pieces of printed circuit board to the rails. This way I didn't need to make a jig. The two temporary pieces are still on the rails in the photos. When they're removed I may solder on another piece or two of PC board, because the board is pretty low quality and not very strong.

Although the job isn't finished, I think the turnout will work well. The rails are electrically isolated from each other, and the rail which is not aligned will be disconnected from power. So there should be no short circuits from wheel flanges.

The cross pieces will be painted to match the roadbed. I'm hoping that will make them inconspicuous. Perhaps the modification isn't a big improvement in appearance but the wheels go through the frog like it's not there, and that pleases me a lot.
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EW3_mod_1.jpg
EW3_mod_2.jpg
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby j p » Thu May 08, 2014 6:22 pm

Interesting idea.
I have a question though: Have you seen such a turnout on a real railroad?
I have never seen it. I tried to google it and the only thing I could find was a turnout with movable frog.
So my impression is that you removed one unwanted feature and introduced another one instead...
Have you considered keeping all the original spikes? There was nothing wrong with them.

Edit:
I have found out that it really exists, but it is very rare here.
Image
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby CN-TT » Thu May 08, 2014 6:51 pm

I like the idea! I like the sacrifice of prototypicality for good functionality but you need more mechanical parts to move the whole thing!? Keep us updated.
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Thu May 08, 2014 8:42 pm

j p wrote:Interesting idea.
I have a question though: Have you seen such a turnout on a real railroad?
I have never seen it. I tried to google it and the only thing I could find was a turnout with movable frog.
So my impression is that you removed one unwanted feature and introduced another one instead...
Have you considered keeping all the original spikes? There was nothing wrong with them.

I must say I've never seen a black plastic frog on a real railroad. I removed -two- unwanted features, replaced with one very much desired feature - great performance, and one less desirable feature - appearance. The original spikes were molded into the plastic. They were removed because they interfere with the movement of the point rails.

The idea was inspired long ago by an article in Model Railroader. I have a photocopy somewhere but can't find it. Vancouver's rapid transit uses closing frog turnouts of a type called swingnose crossing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swingnose_crossing Also, high speed turnouts in Europe use a closing frog mechanism. The examples I've found on the internet are the swingnose crossing type - two photos attached. How prototypical do they look to you?
CN-TT wrote:but you need more mechanical parts to move the whole thing!?

At the points there's not much clearance for the throw mechanism, and not much metal is left there for a strong solder joints to the cross piece, so I'm thinking about attaching the throw linkage to the pivot.
The cross piece at the centre for the rails has no clearance underneath for a pivot, unless I just stick a pin through it down to the baseboard. But if I allow space in the roadbed underneath, I can attach control linkage to the pivot.

I point out, too, that all this is simple, easy and cheap to do. Just time consuming.
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Switched-Diamond.jpg
WeichenHerzstückBeweglich.jpg
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby jpachl » Fri May 09, 2014 12:59 am

Here is a picture of the swing nose frog of a German high speed turnout for a diverging speed of 200 km/h.

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HGV-Weiche 1.jpg
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby CSD » Fri May 09, 2014 10:09 am

Here is a picture of one on the former NAR (Northern Alberta Railway) line in St. Albert.
unnamed[1].jpg
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Fri May 09, 2014 12:48 pm

Thanks for the photos, everyone. I'm collecting them. I found the MR article, it's from September 1981. The author, James R. Barrante mentions the Tru-Scale turnouts. They are code 100 and he wanted code 70, so he made his own. And I was surprised when Bernd first posted the photos of Tru-Scale while I was working on this mod.

It just occurred to me now that the first example of this idea must be the remote controlled American Flyer turnouts in S gauge which I had as a boy.
Attachments
MRSept1981.jpg
AF.jpg
Last edited by dileTTante on Fri May 09, 2014 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Fri May 09, 2014 3:39 pm

This page has images of a swingnose frog as a company product
VAE - Points Technology for Railways, Underground Railways and Tramways
(http://www.railway-technology.com/contr ... /vae3.html)

Here is a downloadable PDF which shows a great variety of European turnouts and crossings.
It has a photo of movable wing rails which I've attached below.
(http://www.zits.pwr.wroc.pl/zwolski/sou ... itches.pdf)

Kadee patented in 1990 a closing frog turnout mechanism. The patent can be downloaded as a PDF. The page about it here (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4948073.html)
Here is a direct link to the PDF - (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4948073.pdf)
An image from it is also attached below.

It'll be a few days before I can resume work on the Tillig turnout.
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movable_wing_rails.jpg
Kadee_patent.jpg
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:52 pm

When I resumed working on the closing frog turnout the rails fell apart. The circuit board was cheap and the copper came unglued from the board after soldering. The reason for using the board was to avoid short circuits between the point rails. But I realised later that isolating the point rails from each other wasn't enough to prevent all possible short circuit from the wheel flanges. So the only option was to use generous gaps at the points and the frogs.

Instead of circuit boards I tried short pieces of N scale rail. They fit between the ties without the need for great precision and they soldered easily to the point rails. However at the pivot and the throw connection I ended up using N scale rail joiners as cross pieces because they were thin enough to drill holes through them. They required more precision when soldering to fit between the ties.

Admittedly this looks crude but it was just an experiment and it had taken many tries to get things right. Hopefully the turnout will look better after ballasting and paint. But it works and it satisfied the need for something to use at train shows which was reliable and would handle any rolling stock. Long locos, short locos, rail-buses all run through without stalling and passenger car lights stay on all the way through. Long passenger cars go through without looking funny.

My intention was to use a DCC controlled servo and I spent a lot of time learning how the unit functioned and preparing it for installation. But while setting it up I let the circuit board touch a screwdriver underneath it on the work table, and the servo control unit died instantly. I couldn't afford a new one at the time so I had to make a hand operated control. This was one of the reasons the layout almost wasn't ready for the recent train show.

The hand operated unit started with a paper clip bent to form a spring like in the controls I had seen on layouts at the train shows. I got the idea of forcing the clip in and out using wedges of styrene and it went from there. The unit includes a micro-switch for changing polarity at the frog, and a terminal block for connection to power supply.

A limitation I set for the design was to have the control no higher than the track, so it wouldn't interfere with anything when transporting the layout to a train show. Therefore I lowered the unit to the level of the layout board leaving space above for a control handle which slides left and right. This required bending a new paper clip and cutting the cover plate to accept the dogleg in the paper clip. Two holes in the cover plate at the left allow access to the terminal block with a screwdriver.

Possibly I'll get a Tam Valley DCC control while visiting the U.S. soon, inspired by the ones used in CNTT's GuiTTar Case, but the present arrangement works well enough.
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Re: modified Tillig turnout

Postby dileTTante » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:58 pm

It was an interesting experiment and it served the purpose. If the ideas help anyone else, that's good. If you think it's awful or could be done better then please offer suggestions, although I've been known to ignore advice.

-Terry C.
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