making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Tom Dempsey » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:38 pm

IF I remember correctly (and that can be iffy) the 1944 cars with 10ft inside height were because of thicker floors. The key thing is the height from the rail. In other words, while the inside height may have matched a 1937 car, the outside dimensions would be that of a 1944 car. When improved Dreadnaughts were used to replace 4/5's, I believe they were usually 3/3's.
Tom Dempsey
 
Posts: 259
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Marquette » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:21 pm

In the SP's case they (according to Tony Thompson's book) had height restrictions which made them order 1944 cars to the same dimensions as the 1937 cars... quick look in the ORER says B-50-25 (10' IH 1944 car) has an extreme height (and height to running board) of 14' 6", whereas B-50-19 cars (1937 AAR standard) have an extreme height (and height to running board) of 14' 7"... so in this case the newer car is even an inch shorter than the older.

As far as the M&StL goes, they had 10' IH 1937 cars, 10' IH 1944 cars and 10' 6" 1944 cars as well... the 1937 and 10' IH 1944 cars both had extreme height and height to running board of 14' 6", whereas the 10' 6" IH 1944 cars were 15' 0-9/16" at the running board and extreme height.

So for these two roads at least, an end to fit the GC model would be appropriate.
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
User avatar
Marquette
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Tom Dempsey » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:27 pm

Okay, I'll buy it, do we have a picture of the ends of the referenced cars to ensure that this is the appropriate improved Dreadnaught end?
Tom Dempsey
 
Posts: 259
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Marquette » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:51 pm

Tom Dempsey wrote:Okay, I'll buy it, do we have a picture of the ends of the referenced cars to ensure that this is the appropriate improved Dreadnaught end?


Okay, and now it's your turn - you got me! :)

See the attached photo of the M&StL car... the M&StL and many SP cars had an end like this, with a thin rib at the top followed by 3 over 4 full-size ribs. Some other SP cars and the NKP cars had ends that were similar but lacked the thin top rib entirely.

M&StL 4844.jpg
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
User avatar
Marquette
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Tom Dempsey » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:17 pm

That's kinda what I was driving at. The only way to get that without a lotta time spent on building up would be to machine the master. It's an interesting end because all the ribs except the top one appear to terminate in the rounded corner formed by the W framing and if you look really close the thin ribs actually mirror to thick ribs in that they thin out where the thick ribs get fat. Not all of the improved Dreadnaughts did that. If you guys can get that made, I'd be in for a few as well.
Tom Dempsey
 
Posts: 259
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Marquette » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:24 am

Well spotted on the thin ribs... though I would let that slip if the big ribs are shaped right, if it makes making the master easier.

I'd be in for a few pair of both this design, suitable for the GC kit, and a few pair of the 4 over 4 design if it's properly taller for a 10' 6" IH car... that would be the hardest part to make for scratchbuilding a "proper" 1944 car.
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
User avatar
Marquette
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Rob M » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:30 am

So, where are we with this? Which size and configurations are needed?

In the photo linked to in Ben's first post there are two types of the 4/4 improved, one with a shorter top rib and one with a longer one?

I did some more looking and was able to find a Gold Coast 1937 A.A.R. boxcar kit. Is that the correct one to make these ends for?
User avatar
Rob M
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:35 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Marquette » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:09 am

Rob M wrote:So, where are we with this? Which size and configurations are needed?

In the photo linked to in Ben's first post there are two types of the 4/4 improved, one with a shorter top rib and one with a longer one?

I did some more looking and was able to find a Gold Coast 1937 A.A.R. boxcar kit. Is that the correct one to make these ends for?


Well... for the Gold Coast 1937 AAR boxcar kit, we would need an end like the one in the photo I linked - 3 over 4 "full" ribs and one thin one at the top.

Of the 4/4 variants, either or both would be great to have to simplify scratchbuilding. These would have to be taller than the 3/4 variant for the Gold Coast kit, to represent the 10' 6" inside height... but I don't know the necessary dimensions off hand and would have to go digging in my paper to find out. I'll do this later today if nobody else chimes in with it before then.
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
User avatar
Marquette
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby scaro » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:59 am

Rob M wrote:So, where are we with this? Which size and configurations are needed?

In the photo linked to in Ben's first post there are two types of the 4/4 improved, one with a shorter top rib and one with a longer one?

I did some more looking and was able to find a Gold Coast 1937 A.A.R. boxcar kit. Is that the correct one to make these ends for?


rob,

i'd suggest the 4/4 improved dreadnaught with the longer top rib as it would be easier to shorten the top rib if needed. i can't work out which was more common, think there were thousands of each type.

but this gives you two possible interesting variations with one end.

i think if the end were made to fit the GC car roof it would be handy. it's a nice roof and so far as I know pretty correct, if another roof surfaced down the track hopefully it would adhere to the same dimensions.


Marquette wrote:
Well... for the Gold Coast 1937 AAR boxcar kit, we would need an end like the one in the photo I linked - 3 over 4 "full" ribs and one thin one at the top.

Of the 4/4 variants, either or both would be great to have to simplify scratchbuilding. These would have to be taller than the 3/4 variant for the Gold Coast kit, to represent the 10' 6" inside height... but I don't know the necessary dimensions off hand and would have to go digging in my paper to find out. I'll do this later today if nobody else chimes in with it before then.



i think the 1/3/4 end is a different beast. another topic ...

i'd prefer to keep the focus on the 4/4 variant. they are right for a huge number of common cars - what used to be called 'AAR 1944 boxcars' until researchers kind of savaged that term.

they add a bit of variety to the GC car, are a bit higher. i am thinking of them more as an aid to scratchbuilding as modellers would have to do their own sides and door, but that is perhaps not so hard.

the GC car has a 4/5 end i think?

I think regarding dimensions, the thing that i'm uncertain of is looking at the car side, from where to where to measure to, in order to determine a car's inner height.

for this end, I think it needs to be about 1.25mm (6") higher than the GC car end. you'd want it to be noticeable as a higher car.

ben
Last edited by scaro on Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
scaro
 

Re: making dreadnaught end pressings for boxcars

Postby Marquette » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:13 pm

scaro wrote:i think the 1/3/4 roof is a different beast. another topic ...


Roof? Or did you mean end?

i'd prefer to keep the focus on the 4/4 variant. they are right for a huge number of common cars - what used to be called 'AAR 1944 boxcars' until researchers kind of savaged that term.

they add a bit of variety to the GC car, are a bit higher. i am thinking of them more as an aid to scratchbuilding as modellers would have to do their own sides and door, but that is perhaps not so hard.


Yes, I agree, that's what the 4/4 end should be, a scratchbuilder's aid... but I would say the 3/4 end, the shorter end to fit the GC car, is just as important... not necessarily in numerical terms (although the SP had like 10 000 cars with the two varieties of the 3/4 end, with or without thin rib at the top)... but for other reasons... like, it will make it easy to make accurate models of a few types of cars, including numerous SP cars (and there does seem to be lots of SP interest in TT, and everyone can use one/some anyways)...

and it fits an existing kit - which will help to bring variety easily. I've long thought (and said) there should be a variety of ends and roofs made available to fit the GC kits (both the 1937 AAR car and the 40' Fowler)... let things get more accurate and - significantly IMO - it will break up the monotony of having many identical cars, and when we've only got a small number of cars available... which is important I think.

As it is I'd want at least 4 pair of each.

the GC car has a 4/5 roof i think?

ben


It has a 4/5 end...
http://espeett.blogspot.com - The SP in 1:120 - my attempt at a blog
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
User avatar
Marquette
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:16 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron