Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr diesels

Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr diesels

Postby Rich1853 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:30 pm

I was board today so I wanted to match the pulling power of these three BTTB dieselloks to the train makeup that I have. The three locomotives are BR110, BR118 and a BR130. The three trains are made up of all BTTB two axel rolling stock.
Train A - 4 Güterwagen and 3 Containertragwagens. Prototypical weight unknown.
Train B - 10 Kesselwagens
per a previous post the hyperlink to the Kesselwagen Book and the diameter measurement that I made makes this a 40 cubic meter tank car. Per calculations that would be 10,566 gallons or 73,967 pounds, 33 long tons of crude oil.
Train C - 10 Offener Güterwagen with coal load; ES-U OMMU
Prototypical this car has a volumn of 36 cubic meters or 1271 cubic feet. The weight of bituminous coal is 84 pounds per cubic foot, the total being 106,827 pounds or 48 long tons. The unladden weight is 12.5 tons max.
Trying to match what I could fine on YouTube, the BR130 being the heavy hauller will pull the coal cars. The BR118 will pull the tank cars, I did see a video pulling the 2 axel coal cars. That leaves the BR110 with the boxcars.

What are your opinion
Prototypical how many cars will those locomotives pull using the loads that I've given.
All this will be going to my Godson in ? years he is 4 now. Also a DR 56 and 81 Dampflokomotive.
And I have been slacking off on my Duisburg Wedau Deutsche Bahn Gleisbau (DBG) Yard.
Last edited by Rich1853 on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby CFRiad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Rich1853 wrote:What are your opinion

A good rule of thumb for European railways circa 1980 is 20-21 metric tonnes per axle maximum gross weight, limited by the rail (62 kg/m), track work and bridges. Some heavy traffic sections allowed up to 25 t per axle.

Cars hauling coal, ore, liquids were usually loaded to the maximum weight. Other cars rarely achieved this weight as the cargo was much lighter, therefore limited by volume.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby CFRiad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:35 pm

CFRiad wrote:A good rule of thumb for European railways circa 1980 is 20-21 metric tonnes per axle. [...] Some heavy traffic sections allowed up to 25 t per axle.


Maybe I should clarify.

The rule of thumb of 20 t/axle applies to the overall rail network. See, the #1 rule of European railways was interoperability: a train should be able to run from Rotterdam to Istanbul or from Rome to Warsaw without hindrance. Loading gauges, weight limits and such were all coordinated between railway administrations.

Some railways had special lines that were only partially or not at all interoperable with the rest of their network. These lines had dedicated rolling stock that never left them and they could have higher weight limits.

E.g. CSD and PKP each had a 1520 mm broad gauge line from the USSR border to their interior for importing Russian coal and ore without transshipment.

Some railway administrations (Finland, UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden) were isolated from the big European network due to geography. They cared about interoperability to various degrees: Sweden and Norway a lot, UK meh and Finland not at all.

Let’s not talk here about Russia, Spain and Portugal.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby CFRiad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:59 pm

Rich1853 wrote:..: makes this a 40 cubic meter tank car. Per calculations that would be 10,566 gallons or 73,967 pounds, 33 long tons.


Something is off in your calculation. 40 m3 is 40 t of water (ah, the beauty of the metric system).
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby Rich1853 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:50 pm

CFRiad wrote:Something is off in your calculation. 40 m3 is 40 t of water (ah, the beauty of the metric system).


I see the abbreviation t which is tonne or metric ton
2204.623 pounds = 1 metric ton
0.000454 x gallons = metric ton

I checked with multiple websites and 10,566 US Gallon (Liquid) is correct.
As for the different density of liquids, I used oil as my base
Water would be 88,177 pounds (40.032358 metric tons)
Crude Oil would be 76,180 pounds (34.58572 metric tons)
Other solvent densities:
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... ersion.xls
Diesel fuel is 6.943 lb/US gal
Ethanol free petrol is 6.217 lb/ US gal

Numbers in the orginal post were rounded off 7 vs 7.2 lbs
Last edited by Rich1853 on Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby krokodil » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:17 am

It is a very complex issue. The pulling power for the locomotives is defined for 3 circumtances - reduced, normal and maximum weight of the train. The weight of the trains is defined with the loading weight per axle. For a simple 2 axle cars with normal loading 12,5 t it is defined as 5-7,5t/axle ( loading weight not the brutto with the car itself). This is revised when for special heavy weight cars, in the calculation they change the number of axles ie. The calculated axle is not identical to the train axles. The heavier cars are calculated with more axles (3,4,5,6 etc). In some countries the pulling tension is defined - Switzerland is 10t/hook this gives them the maximum train weigth of 1000t. Almost each railroad has its own calculation.
Each locomotive has its own weight-table where is the description how many axles can be pulled on the given line.
The reduced table is for slippy rails, bad condition of the locomotive etc. The maximum table is for the dry weather and good condition of the engine.
The picture shows the weight table for Switzerland.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby j p » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:51 am

One correction:
...and Finland not at all.

Wrong! Finland cared for interoperability with the Russian system. Russian freight cars could be (and can be) found at many places in Finland. There were also 3 direct express trains in passenger service: 2 of them Helsinki - St.Petersburg + one sleeping express Helsinki - Moscow. Sibelius train had VR cars and Repin train had SZD / RZD cars. This has been improved since by Allegro trains to 4 times daily Helsinki - St.Petersburg (it takes only 3 and half hours) and one sleeping express Helsinki - Moscow.

Regarding the weight of the freight trains: the maximum weight is specified in the time table and it depends on the locomotive used for the train and on the gradients of the line. The maximum length is specified too, as it can be the limiting factor rather than the weight.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby Rich1853 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:48 am

Another question what is the pulling power of the following shunting locomotives.
Steam: DRG 81
Diesel: DRG 107 (CSD T435)

I would start small for the introduction of electric trains to my Godson. He loves his Brio trains that I got him earlier in the year.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby krokodil » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:14 am

I would say for the diesel loco max of about 20 cars, for the steamer about 15( loaded cars). But as described earlier it can change depending on the track condition and the slopes.
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Re: Looking to match pulling power prototypical of 3 dr dies

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:02 pm

Also in DR you could see pretty much any combination of locomotive and load passenger/freight as long as the load limits weren't broken. Obviously most trains were "standard" consists but in a pinch they used whatever was available. So if you mix and match what you have, you're still very likely prototypical.


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