Lok-N-Roll E-7

Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby ConducTTor » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:43 pm

Carsten wrote:BTW the Union-TT E7 shell is almost an inch to short.


A scale inch or real inch? If it's real - wow, that's a lot.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby scaro » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:48 pm

a real one so far as i know.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby j p » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:40 am

These pictures should make it clear.
The advantage of the Lok-N-Roll shortened E7 is that it can run through streetcar curves. HP E7 cannot do that.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby Arseny » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:06 am

Can we use HP's models as standart?
Were they correct, just-in-scale, with right dimensions?
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby scaro » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:30 am

I cannot say definitively. I didn't buy one as it is from 1946 and looks like it, but in terms of proportions, the HP loco- to me -captures the look better. The few pictures of the Union TT E7 i saw did not encourage me. It looked like it had been reworked from a NOHAB shell, particularly the nose area. Overall, the loco reminded me of a Baldwin cab unit,and i even wondered, in a brief moment of madness, whether it could be converted into one.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby Arseny » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:17 am

Hmm... do you really need Baldwin cab diesel?
Maybe ask Nikolay from RailTT to do it? :wink:
But he needs some starting point... Nohab?.. :eh:
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:41 pm

Ha. Can someone explain Union TT please? I figured they ended up with HP or Kemtron parts for the E7. Obviously not.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby scaro » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:34 pm

Arseny wrote:Hmm... do you really need Baldwin cab diesel?
Maybe ask Nikolay from RailTT to do it? :wink:
But he needs some starting point... Nohab?.. :eh:


Arseny, I was thinking about making a Baldwin cab unit when i was more interested in the Central RR of New Jersey (CNJ) who had a number of Baldwin freight cab units.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11947249@N ... /lightbox/

However it is a difficult prototype to research, and i do not think the NOHAB cab is that close to the Baldwin, though it does looks superficially similar because of the big windshields. Further, Baldwin was the least successful major diesel builder. Its locomotives were rare, the cab units in particular had all sorts of mechanical problems, were pulled from service early and do not make good prototypes. For example, the CNJ freight cab units, which were the 'DR4-4-15' model, were only owned by three railroads, CNJ, Missouri Pacific and New York Central. Baldwin changed the carbody design a number of times, so a model based on the CNJ version would not be correct for MP or NYC versions! MP and NYC withdrew theirs by the late 1950s. CNJ kept theirs only because EMD would not even accept the Baldwins in trade for new SD35s, so CNJ had to trade in their F3s to EMD instead, and had to keep their unwanted Baldwins a couple more years.

The Baldwin loco that the Union TT E7 reminds me of was even rarer, it was a passenger loco sold to the New York Central, who had six, and the Seaboard Air Line, who had three: http://rr-fallenflags.org/sal/sal2702awc.jpg

The real NOHAB is a real-life kitbash. Not from Es or F units directly but from the loco builder Clyde in Australia who 'shrunk' the standard EMD F unit nose and cab to fit the Australian loading gauge and built a number of 'stretched' F7s on three axle trucks for the local market. The Europeans altered this design again as they wanted bigger windshields and a shorter, lower nose, to increase visibility and they adjusted the carbody to suit their loading gauge. So it's a kitbash of a kitbash! I do not think a NOHAB nose can be easily reworked back into an American EMD. It has had too many adjustments. You may as well start from scratch.

Does TT need a Baldwin cab unit? Unless Nikolay is fascinated with Baldwins for his own interest, then maybe, but I do not think anyone would buy one ...

TT needs an F3 or F7 cab diesel. Making an EMD nose is not easy so a shell would be handy. No disrespect to the Lionel as it filled a gap, but it is a toy and won't attract anyone to TT. A decent F unit might, because there were thousands of them.

The best thing would be a TT version of the HO Highliners shell, where you get a basic shell and then add parts to make your own F2, F3, F7 or F9, following the individual details of the loco you want to make. This could even be done on Shapeways or by some other 3D producer.

ConducTTor wrote:Ha. Can someone explain Union TT please? I figured they ended up with HP or Kemtron parts for the E7. Obviously not.


Alex, I think the pdf from Union TT gives away the origin:

union-tt-t1773.html?hilit=union%20tt%20e7%20pdf#p19981

It looks to me as if their E7 was based on the NOHAB.

As for explaining it ... I don't know. Ever read Kafka? He wrote a novel called 'Amerika', a 'Mittel Europa' depiction of what he thought America was like, never having been there, and it is the weirdest portrayal of the US I have ever read. I guess Union TT was a bit like that ... European components used to portray something American, but not quite hitting the mark.

Ben
Last edited by scaro on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby j p » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:37 pm

ConducTTor wrote:Ha. Can someone explain Union TT please? I figured they ended up with HP or Kemtron parts for the E7. Obviously not.


It is here on the board: http://www.ttnut.com/union-tt-t989.html

I don't think that Union TT did not know or could not find the correct measures of the engine.
They tried to fit it to the chassis which they had available from BTTB. Remember that shortening of the vehicles was a common practise at Zeuke and BTTB, followed by Tillig until 2012-2013 in case of Y-cars.
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Re: Lok-N-Roll E-7

Postby scaro » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:59 pm

that is a good point, as this was back in 2000 and I do not think there would have been a correct chassis for the E unit in TT then. even now, the only truck that is close is the tillig CSD T679 chassis and I do not think this was available then.

if one wanted an E7 chassis, one might reverse the trucks on that chassis, as doing so gives you the right wheelbase for an E unit, as i recall. but you would need to cut away some metal at each end of the heavy metal 'cowl' that holds the motor and worms, and I do not know how it would run.
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