Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Re: 2019 Vancouver Train Expo

Postby AstroGoat760 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Out of curiosity, what work is needed to modify a BR218 chassis to work as a suitable powerplant for the F3?
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Re: 2019 Vancouver Train Expo

Postby Richard-B » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:47 am

AstroGoat760 wrote:Out of curiosity, what work is needed to modify a BR218 chassis to work as a suitable powerplant for the F3?
Both the Tillig BR-218 chassis brick and the Lionel F3 shell need to be 'Dremelized...'
Terry can elaborate...
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Re: 2019 Vancouver Train Expo

Postby dileTTante » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:07 am

AstroGoat760 wrote:Out of curiosity, what work is needed to modify a BR218 chassis to work as a suitable powerplant for the F3?
Remove metal until it fits.

Difficulty is finding BR218. It's the Tillig ICE version for starter sets. From posts on TTNut I thought the dimensions would be right. Price is low but it's out of production. Other versions from Tillig and Piko may work, but they cost more and dimensions are unknown. Voytek found one for me when he was in Poland recently.

The test runs exceeded my expectations and the respose from others was encouraging, so I'll continue working on it. After a while I'll elaborate and post photos in a new thread.

Thanks for your interest.
- Terry C
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Re: 2019 Vancouver Train Expo

Postby Arseny » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am

dileTTante wrote:Difficulty is finding BR218. It's the Tillig ICE version for starter sets. From posts on TTNut I thought the dimensions would be right. Price is low but it's out of production. Other versions from Tillig and Piko may work, but they cost more and dimensions are unknown. Voytek found one for me when he was in Poland recently.


Try to find art.02709
https://www.tillig.com/eng/Produkte/pro ... 02709.html

It's available here but only 1 unit:
http://www.mbs-sebnitz.de/diesellok-br- ... erung.html

You can also try to use "usual" (not "start") version, art.02715 , or 02717 , or 02742 - for example this one:
https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Di ... 78839.html
- but the price is higher...

Or try to find some on Ebay (I've found some) but keep in mind that there were 2 or 3 different versions with different engines
Look here:
using-br218-as-for-alco-fa-building-t1523-30.html?hilit=Alco#p34978
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Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Postby dileTTante » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:54 pm

Here are photos of the Lionel F3 with Tillig BR218 (02709) put inside.
I used an old Dremel tool with a grinding wheel and some cut-off discs which I have not used in several years. Most of metal removed was from the front of the chassis.

The Lionel side trucks have a wheelbase a millimeter shorter than the BR218 trucks, which I believe have the correct 9 ft wheelbase. I have ordered Conductor's Blomberg side frames from iMaterialise (22 euros - but minimum order is 30 euros).

The Tillig side frames don't leave room for a body mounted coupler at the rear. I connected the two locomotives together with a piece of nylon wire tie. The Tillig loco has plastic ladders at each end held to the chassis by small screws. Those screws are used for the new connector. New side frames might improve the coupler situation.

For the dummy unit I kept the original trucks and sideframes, but replaced the wheels. Lionel wheels are useless. The Lionel wheels are 9 mm diameter. 40 inch F3 wheels I believe are about 8.7 mm in TT. All I have on hand are old BTTB plastic wheels 8.3 mm diameter. I used these for testing the loco, but I'll get better wheels. The large BTTB flanges meant I had to cut clearances in the Lionel trucks. The tapered axle ends of the wheels had to be ground off.

Also, the Lionel wheel axles are large and I put in plastic shims for the smaller axle of the replacement wheels. The white plastic shims can be seen in one photo.too. The plastic wheels and the crude bearings in the dummy unit were my main concern during the test runs, but the arrangement worked well enough. Also, the dummy coupler at the rear was adequate for a test run but must be replaced with something better.

Most of this was temporary for the purpose of testing. Lots of refinement is needed for a finished model.

- Terry C
Attachments
P1010658R.JPG
BR218 02709 2.png
P1010659R.JPG
showing original Lionel truck and wheels
P1010661R.JPG
P1010663R.JPG
showing Lionel trucks with BTTB wheels
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Re: Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Postby areibel » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Nice work Terry!
I know several guys used the BR218 for the Alco FA's, yours is the first I've seen going into the Lionels. Now you have me wondering where my Dremel is!
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Re: Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Postby ConducTTor » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 am

Yup the 218s are perfect for FA/FBs. I didn't even think to try it on a F3 :thinking:
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Re: 2019 Vancouver Train Expo

Postby Rich1853 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Arseny wrote:
dileTTante wrote:Difficulty is finding BR218...

You can also try to use "usual" (not "start") version, art.02715 , or 02717 , or 02742 - for example this one:
https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Di ... 78839.html
- but the price is higher...


I received a email today from MSL with their sale item and this BR218 was one of them

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Di ... 37309.html
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Re: Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Postby Bigelov » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:43 pm

I have one of the the "usual" Br212/V169 Tillig locomotives (item 02742) that Arseny mentioned. The frame and electric board look exactly the same as the photo of the one with the green board that Terry posted above. I would assume that the dimensions would be the same as the starter version.
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Re: Lionel F3 + Tillig BR218

Postby Arseny » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:01 am

If I am not mistaken, the "green" one is better and more modern. Runs smoother.
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