Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be modelled?

Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Zs12 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:23 am

Eh, good luck! I'd like to see your progress on this project. :wave:
I plan something similar to this but without a specific prototype, because there're some essential parts which I can't scratchbuild. My tender will be an extended BTTB one with GC trucks. For the locomotive itself I'm searching yet for some detail parts, like smoke box front, domes, bell, lamp, pilot and s.o.

regards luTTe
Last edited by Zs12 on Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:44 am

There are some detail parts I may be able to use from N or HO. But I may try Shapeways to make parts.

But I'll end up making a new thread for this, and keep this for the freight car fleet. ;)
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:46 am

There is a question from Russia. :)

Can you tell us, which models of boxcars were most frequently in use in the interchange service?
At least for the biggest roads, such as CN, CP, NYC, PRR, ATSF, SP?

And one Russian modeller needs any information about NYC... :)
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:42 am

I can do a breakdown for the larger roads of boxcars by type, sure! For what period do they want the data from? The 1953 material, or the 1970?

For the NYC modeller: one good link is http://www.canadasouthern.com - he's got lots of info and photos of the NYC and it's subsidiaries, especially the Canada Southern.
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:57 am

As I understood, 1953 and 1970 BOTH. :)

(As for me personally, I prefer 1953, you know... ;) )
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:28 pm

Okay, for the boxcar types, I'll make a new thread; I'm in the process of working that out, too, but it'll take a bit - it's a little... big. ;P

So, now we come to gondolas. Gondolas were "general service" cars, for the most part; as such, they got around quite a bit, though not quite so much as boxcars did - while it wouldn't be terribly surprising for a Florida East Coast boxcar to show up in Vancouver, it would be somewhat surprising to see an FEC gon in Vancouver. Not so surprising, though, if that FEC gon showed up in Chicago, though, and probably not surprising at all to see it in Virginia. Sure, an FEC gon /could/ have turned up in Vancouver, but that'd be a special occasion. Mostly, gons tended to stay within a certain geographic region.

Flatcars, hoppers and covered hoppers all tended to show the same sort of "restricted distribution" with an occasional exception or two. To help reflect this, I've worked out the distribution numbers by region.

The definitions of the regions:

NORTHWEST: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota.

SOUTHWEST: California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas.

MIDWEST: Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky

GREAT LAKES: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio.

NORTHEAST: Pennsylvania, New York, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachussets, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, West Virginia.

SOUTH: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas.

Like for boxcars, I've also worked out a way of figuring out how many cars from which road you'd need to get a reasonable distribution of roadnames among your gondola fleet. I've broken this down by region, using regional totals for the calculation. Here, we'll be assuming a total gondola fleet of 20 cars, of which 5 should be home road. 25% home road gons should be reasonable for most cases, though the further away you are from a big yard or interchange point, the more home-road gons you're likely to see.

So, keep in mind that the number listed is how many out of 15 cars you should have of that roadname; the number afterwards in brackets next to the railway is how many gons that railway owned.

For deciding which of the "pick-and-choose" cars to choose, keep in mind the more restricted distribution of gons; I would suggest opting for those from railways that either connect to yours directly, or are closest geographically. I would say that this consideration is especially applicable to roads with small gondola fleets. While it wouldn't be a big surprise to see a Spokane International gondola in Moscow, Idaho, it would be somewhat unusual to see it in Cody, Wyoming.

Gondolas, 1953

Northwest (WA, OR, ID, MT, WY, ND, SD) - total 39018 gons
Four of MILW - Milwaukee Road (11256);

Two each of:
CB&Q - Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (6690)
UP - Union Pacific (6253)
NP - Northern Pacific (4052)
CNW - Chicago & North Western (4008)

One of:
GN - Great Northern (3023)

One of any two of:
SOO - Soo Line (1577)
CMO - Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha (1075)
SP&S - Spokane, Portland & Seattle (400)
M&StL - Minneapolis & St Louis (251)
ASX - American Smelting & Refining Co. (250)
USAX - US Army (82)
PC - Pacific Coast RR (37)
SI - Spokane International (35)
MWS - Montana, Wyoming & Southern (24)
HDX - Hooker-Detrex, Inc. (5)

Southwest (CA, NV, UT, CO, AZ, NM, TX) - total 72038 gons
Two each of:
SP - Southern Pacific (11299)
ATSF - Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe (11075)

One each of:
CB&Q - Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (6690)
UP - Union Pacific (6253)
RI - Rock Island (6058)
MP - Missouri Pacific (6055)
SLSF - St Louis-San Francisco "Frisco" (5113)
D&RGW - Denver & Rio Grande Western (4565)

One each of any five of:
T&NO - Texas & New Orleans (4098)
T&P - Texas & Pacific (1640)
UCR - Utah Coal Route (1632)
MKT - Missouri-Kansas-Texas (1493)
WP - Western Pacific (1355)
StLB&M - St Louis, Brownsville & Mexico (1226)
I-GN - International-Great Northern (1102)
C&S - Colorado & Southern (1074)
SSW - St Louis Southwestern "Cotton Belt" (639)
C&W - Colorado & Wyoming (386)
FW&D - Fort Worth & Denver (150)
USAX - US Army (82)
PE - Pacific Electric (22)
PENX - Cia. Minera de Penoles, S.A. (20) (in Texas)
UTAH - Utah Ry (8)
TM - Texas-Mexican Ry (3)

Midwest (NE, KS, OK, MO, IL, IN, IA, KY) - total 203991 gons
Three of:
PRR - Pennsylvania (42402)

Two of:
NYC - New York Central (21731)

One each of:
B&O - Baltimore & Ohio (14742)
MILW - Milwaukee Road (11256)
ATSF - Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe (11075)
L&N - Louisville & Nashville (10743)

One each of any six of:
SOU - Southern (9127)
IC - Illinois Central (7990)
C&O - Chesapeake & Ohio (7610)
CB&Q - Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (6690)
UP - Union Pacific (6253)
RI - Rock Island (6058)
MP - Missouri Pacific (6055)
EJ&E - Elgin, Joliet & Eastern (6017)
SLSF - St Louis-San Francisco "Frisco" (5113)
NKP - Nickel Plate Road (4152)
ERIE - Erie (4053)
CNW - Chicago & North Western (4008)
WLE - Wheeling & Lake Erie (2425)
WAB - Wabash (2095)
GM&O - Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (1740)
C&EI - Chicago & Eastern Illinois (1727)
SOO - Soo Line (1577)
MKT - Missouri-Kansas-Texas (1493)
KCS - Kansas City Southern (1356)
C&IM - Chicago & Illinois Midland (1237)
CMO - Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha (1075)
GTW - Grand Trunk Western (715)
CIL - Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville "Monon" (649)
SSW - St Louis Southwestern "Cotton Belt" (639)
CGW - Chicago Great Western (310)
IHB - Indiana Harbor Belt (297)
C&IW - Chicago & Illinois Western (278)
M&StL - Minneapolis & St Louis (251)
L&M - Litchfield & Madison (235)
ITC - Illinois Terminal (214)
MI - Missouri-Illinois (183)
USAX - US Army (82)
C&WI - Chicago & Western Indiana (79)
FRDX - Ford Motor Company (68)
IWC - Federal Barge Lines (62)
P&E - Peoria & Eastern (51)
CSS&SB - Chicago, South Shore & South Bend (43)
AL&S - Alton & Southern (24)
NEO - Northeast Oklahoma (11)
WCF&N - Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern (7)
CMX - Chromium Mining & Smelting Co. (2)
SLOF - St Louis & O'Fallon (1)

Great Lakes (MN, WI, MI, OH) - total 152174 gons
Four of:
PRR - Pennsylvania (42402)

Two of:
NYC - New York Central (21731)

One each of:
B&O - Baltimore & Ohio (14742)
MILW - Milwaukee Road (11256)
P&LE - Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (9247)

One each of any six of:
IC - Illinois Central (7990)
C&O - Chesapeake & Ohio (7610)
N&W - Norfolk & Western (5018)
NKP - Nickel Plate Road (4152)
ERIE - Erie (4053)
NP - Northern Pacific (4052)
CNW - Chicago & North Western (4008)
GN - Great Northern (3023)
WLE - Wheeling & Lake Erie (2425)
WAB - Wabash (2095)
SOO - Soo Line (1577)
CMO - Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha (1075)
DT&I - Detroit, Toledo & Ironton (995)
PM - Pere Marquette (992)
GTW - Grand Trunk Western (715)
NSS - Newburgh & South Shore (387)
DM&IR - Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range (373)
LT - Lake Terminal (349)
CGW - Chicago Great Western (310)
Y&N - Youngstown & Northern (255)
M&StL - Minneapolis & St Louis (251)
ASX - American Smelting & Refining Co. (250)
DSS&A - Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic (229)
DWP - Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific (150)
LS&I - Lake Superior & Ishpeming (97)
USAX - US Army (82)
FRDX - Ford Motor Company (68)
FP&E - Fairport, Painesville & Eastern (57)
ACY - Akron, Canton & Youngstown (39)
KGB - Kewaunee, Green Bay & Western (33)
D&M - Detroit & Mackinac (25)
ELS - Escanaba & Lake Superior (22)
DC - Delray Connecting (16)
COPR - Copper Range (12)
AA - Ann Arbor (9)
D&NE - Duluth & Northeastern (1)
MC - Michigan Central (1)

Northeast (PA, NY, MD, DE, NJ, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME, WV) - total 132445 gons
Five of:
PRR - Pennsylvania (42402)

Two each of:
NYC - New York Central (21731)
B&O - Baltimore & Ohio (14742)

One each of:
P&LE - Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (9247)
RDG - Reading (8242)

One each of any four of:
N&W - Norfolk & Western (5018)
NKP - Nickel Plate Road (4152)
ERIE - Erie (4053)
LV - Lehigh Valley (2477)
CRP - Central RR of Pennsylvania (2460)
WLE - Wheeling & Lake Erie (2425)
URR - Union RR (2149)
WAB - Wabash (2095)
WM - Western Maryland (1610)
PMcK&Y - Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny (1542)
B&LE - Bessemer & Lake Erie (1520)
DL&W - Delaware, Lackawanna & Western (1286)
D&H - Delaware & Hudson (1234)
B&M - Boston & Maine (1095)
NH - New Haven (1009)
MEC - Maine Central (402)
CNJ - Central RR of New Jersey (284)
B&A - Boston & Albany (266)
ASX - American Smelting & Refining Co. (250)
LNE - Lehigh & New England (192)
MKC - McKeesport Connecting (100)
PBR - Patapsco & Back Rivers (100)
USAX - US Army (82)
P&E - Peoria & Eastern (51)
SB - South Buffalo (50)
R - Rutland (44)
JARX - John A. Roebling's Sons Co. (32)
BAR - Bangor & Aroostook (17)
LIRR - Long Island RR (17)
CBL - Conemaugh & Black Lick (15)
CCBX - Carbide & Carbon Chemicals Co. (15)
NYO&W - New York, Ontario & Western (13)
BKX - Blaw-Knox Co. (6)
BC&G - Buffalo Creek & Gauley (5)
LHR - Lehigh & Hudson River (5)
P&S - Pittsburg & Shawmut (5)
M - Montour (3)
B&C - Barre & Chelsea (2)

South (VA, NC, SC, TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR) - total 75713 gons
Two each of:
L&N - Louisville & Nashville (10743)
SOU - Southern (9127)
IC - Illinois Central (7990)

One each of:
ACL - Atlantic Coast Line (6198)
RI - Rock Island (6058)
MP - Missouri Pacific (6055)
SLSF - St Louis-San Francisco "Frisco" (5113)
N&W - Norfolk & Western (5018)

One each of any four of:
T&NO - Texas & New Orleans (4098)
SAL - Seaboard Air Line (3076)
VGN - Virginian (2101)
GM&O - Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (1740)
T&P - Texas & Pacific (1640)
NC&StL - Nashville, Chattanooga & St Louis (1402)
CG - Central of Georgia (1180)
P&WV - Pittsburgh & West Virginia (854)
SSW - St Louis Southwestern "Cotton Belt" (639)
BS - Birmingham Southern (522)
L&A - Louisiana & Arkansas (499)
GA - Georgia RR (366)
CRR - Clinchfield (249)
NS - Norfolk Southern (249)
C&G - Columbus & Greenville (119)
WofA - Western of Alabama (107)
RF&P - Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac (93)
USAX - US Army (82)
A&WP - Atlanta & West Point (71)
IWC - Federal Barge Lines (62)
C&WC - Charleston & Western Carolina (59)
MSC - Mississippi Central (48)
LM - Louisiana Midland (45)
FEC - Florida East Coast (30)
WSS - Winston-Salem Southbound (30)
G&F - Georgia & Florida (23)
TC - Tennessee Central (17)
AN - Apalachicola Northern (10)

CANADA

Canada is here different from America, just like with boxcars (and many other things... but I digress). As with boxcars, if you're modelling the CN or CP, you'll have anywhere from 50-100% home road gondolas, depending on your location - the farther away you are from an interchange point, the less likely you will be to see foreign-road cars.

Also, you're not very likely to see US-owned gons, except in southwestern Ontario between Windsor and Niagara Falls, on the Ontario trackage of the Wabash and the Pere Marquette/C&O, as well as on the Canada Southern - for CASO, the home road gons are NYC.

I didn't do a mathematical breakdown of the numbers for Canadian gons, since it should be easy enough to figure out what you need. As for the US, you'll be much more likely to see foreign cars within their home region, though cars did /occasionally/ cross the country - I've seen photos of Algoma Central cars in Vancouver. But the AC is probably an exception, since they served Algoma Steel, who shipped product all over the country. I don't know of any photos of RS cars in BC or PGE cars in Quebec, conversely.

CN - Canadian National (9571)
CP - Canadian Pacific (5788)
AC - Algoma Central (827) (Ontario)
THB - Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo (74) (Ontario)
PGE - Pacific Great Eastern (60) (British Columbia)
ONT - Ontario Northland (incl. ONT, TEM; 50) (Ontario)
RS - Roberval-Saguenay (45) (Quebec)
QLP - Quebec Railway, Light & Power (12) (Quebec)

(1970 to come later)
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:06 pm

My hero :clap:
My website: http://www.ttnut.com
It's the website you're already on. But if you want to be even more on it, click the link.
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby richardedmonds » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:29 am

Yes he is very very good isn't he :clap: :clap:
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:42 am

It's great; I am just translating. ;)

And what about hoppers? Is it the same rule, so I can't use the D&RGW hoppers on the Soo Line?
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:33 am

Arseny wrote:It's great; I am just translating. ;)

And what about hoppers? Is it the same rule, so I can't use the D&RGW hoppers on the Soo Line?


Well, cars can and did get "lost" sometimes so it's within the realm of possibility - but not of probability. Like, you COULD get struck by lightning and hit by a car at the same time during an earthquake - but it's not very likely at all.

Like every rule, there are exceptions too; perhaps a customer on your Soo Line ordered some bulk fishmeal from California or something like that.
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