Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be modelled?

Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:04 am

Marquette, thank you!

But as for hockey - no, I do not interesting in hockey and do not watch the championships.

(To say more, I even do not have the TV at home!.. :crazy: )
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:26 am

Ah - hockey and trains, my two biggest passions! (But I don't have a TV either, I watch games online!)

Regarding the translation at 12mm.ru - if anyone has questions there, please do send them to me? I'll be happy to answer, always glad to help. :)
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:43 am

Ok. :)

There was only one question for the present time: what about locomotive fleet for your layout, track scheme, railway schedule (timetable? I do not know the correct word).
Will it be "like real" or fictional?
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:32 am

The locomotive fleet is to be as correct as possible for Autumn of 1952. While I haven't yet found any information on the allocation of locomotives to depots, I do know that the Pere Marquette division of the Chesapeake & Ohio in 1952 operated NW2, SW1, BL2, E7 and GE 70-Ton locomotives. Hopefully I will yet find info on which locomotive numbers operated in the Port Huron area in my chosen time frame, but if not, I do know what numbers the PM engines carried and will pick something. The only one of those types I can't use is the E7, which were mainline power. Further, I do know that there were C&O GP7 and SW9 operating in the areas around Saginaw, Michigan and Sarnia, so both of those will be units I model. I know numbers from the 1960s and later for units in Sarnia, but it's easy to determine that they were the same units in 1952: the locomotives operated on PM (later C&O) lines in Canada were all built in Canada (otherwise, the railway would have to pay duty on them). Lastly, I know that PM 2-8-0 #921 operated in Ontario until 1951, so I'll be modelling that, too - even if it was gone a year before my chosen time, it's close enough, and it lets me have one steamer! But in general, the goal is to be as accurate as possible for my chosen time, down to the numbers on the locomotives.

For operation, I plan on running trains according to actual timetables.

As for the track plan: I have fire insurance maps for Bad Axe from 1939 and photos from later years. Using these, I will work out a track arrangement that fits the space I have available on the two module sections(a total of about 77 cm by 244 cm), while being as accurate as possible. Naturally, distances will have to be compressed and shortened, and some things will be cut out, but overall my goal is that if someone from Bad Axe looked at my modules, he'd say, "yes, that looks like Bad Axe".

So to sum: as far as locomotive fleet, track layout and operation schedules go, I'd like to be as accurate as I can possibly be within the limits of my knowledge (which can be expanded) and my available space (which, for the time being, cannot be expanded).
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:50 am

Marquette, but where will you get such a lot of US locomotives?!

I know only the Possum Valley's SW1200 (can it be converted into SW1?) and Lionell's GP9 that can be motorized...
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:58 am

The Worsely Works SW kit is suitable dimensionally for SW7, SW9, SW900 and SW1200, so the SW9 is covered. CSD here is working on CAD for a GP7 (or 9? depends on the arrangement of louvres as the big visual difference), I'm looking forward to seeing that ready, as I will take one of those when I can; I also do have a Lionel GP (which is actually closer to a GP7, not a GP9). The SW1 is rather shorter than the later SWs, has different cab windows and a different (stepped, not sloped) section in front of the cab, so no, the Worsely etch can't be used for it; however, I'm working on the CAD for one of those. Similar will have to happen for an NW2. For the PM 2-8-0, I have a BTTB 56.20 whose wheelbase and wheel diameter is close enough to what the PM's locomotives had, so I'll be using that as a basis for a conversion (new boiler, cab and tender). I also have the scratchbuilt BL2 body I've posted here in the forum you may have seen, but I will probably end up drawing CAD for a new body and chassis - the body I built is 4' too short, made so to fit the GP7/9 chassis. Now that I'm learning how to do CAD, I will eventually try for an accurate BL2.

As I said, I have a Lionel GP9 (GP7) in hand along with the SW etch for an SW9, and the 2-8-0 chassis, so I have the immediate basis for a small locomotive fleet. It'll be a while yet till I have track laid, so by then who knows, I may have the SW1 ready by the time I'm able to run trains on my tracks...
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:28 am

Marquette wrote:For the PM 2-8-0, I have a BTTB 56.20 whose wheelbase and wheel diameter is close enough to what the PM's locomotives had, so I'll be using that as a basis for a conversion (new boiler, cab and tender).


But why do you want to use the BTTB BR56, not HP Consolidation?
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:05 pm

Arseny wrote:
Marquette wrote:For the PM 2-8-0, I have a BTTB 56.20 whose wheelbase and wheel diameter is close enough to what the PM's locomotives had, so I'll be using that as a basis for a conversion (new boiler, cab and tender).


But why do you want to use the BTTB BR56, not HP Consolidation?


1. Because the driver diameter is almost exactly correct, as is axle spacing, for the locomotive I want to model.

2. The BTTB, while rather old by today's standards, is still rather newer in technical and other aspects, than the HP locomotive. HP may have been an American product based more or less loosely on an American prototype, but that isn't reason enough for me to opt for a somewhat more substandard item as a basis for a kitbash.

3. I paid about $30 for the BTTB locomotive; will I find an HP Consolidation for that price? I doubt it. And since I'm going to cut it apart and throw most of it away anyways, I'd rather not spend $100 on something that'll end up being to me one quarter useful and three quarters thrown in the trash. I'd rather leave the HP stuff to the collectors: I remember some years back I mentioned an idea on the German TT forum about tracking down some of the BTTB Shinkansen sets to kitbash into a more accurate Shinkansen with correct lengths etc, and the reaction was overwhelmingly negative ("don't buy old things collectors are desperate for, just to cut it up!").

That about sums it up. Since whichever model I use as a basis, BTTB or HP, will require an extensive amount of rebuilding to get a reasonably accurate PM locomotive, I think the cheaper and easier-to-find BTTB model is the better option for a starting point.
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Arseny » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:53 am

Marquette wrote:I have a BTTB 56.20 whose wheelbase and wheel diameter is close enough to what the PM's locomotives had, so I'll be using that as a basis for a conversion (new boiler, cab and tender)


And what technology will you use to make the boiler and cab?
Shapeways or something else?
If shapeways, I would like to purchase such kit to transfer BR56 -> american Consolidation. :)

But the BTTB BR 56 looks quite different in comparison with the HP's Consolidation. Were the PM's steam locomotives such different? Were there any other steam locomotives on the American railways looking like the PM's ones? For example on the Soo Line and/or DSS&A?.. ;)
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Re: Intro to US freight car fleets, or: what should be model

Postby Marquette » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:42 am

Arseny wrote:And what technology will you use to make the boiler and cab?
Shapeways or something else?
If shapeways, I would like to purchase such kit to transfer BR56 -> american Consolidation. :)

But the BTTB BR 56 looks quite different in comparison with the HP's Consolidation. Were the PM's steam locomotives such different? Were there any other steam locomotives on the American railways looking like the PM's ones? For example on the Soo Line and/or DSS&A?.. ;)


I haven't decided how I'll make the boiler and cab, but most likely I'll just scratchbuild it from styrene. Same for the tender, though that I *may* do via Shapeways.

The PM locomotive in question doesn't look anything like the BR 56, except as I said in terms of driver diameter and driver-axle spacing. I will be using only the chassis for my conversion, so what the rest of the locomotive looks like is irrelevant. The valve gear is different too, but I haven't yet decided if I will make new, correct valve gear. We'll see! :)
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