I need some advice (all of it!)

Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby Petercat » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:14 am

LVG1, thanks for posting all of those photos! Man, the Nohabs were pretty! Now I have to have one.
But those windshields make them look like sad little puppies. I need to buy one just so that I can paint a frowny-mouth between the headlights, Maybe "Cars"-type eyes...
Having said that, I've ordered my Santa Fe F3 from Lok-n-Roll. And I have no USA rolling stock to go with it. Yet.

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice, friends. If it weren't for you, I probably would have bought a bunch of mismatched stuff. I would have certainly bought a lot of BTTB track, as that is most of what's on ebay.DE!
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby Arseny » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:40 am

Petercat wrote:I've ordered my Santa Fe F3 from Lok-n-Roll. And I have no USA rolling stock to go with it. Yet.


The simplest way is to start from Gold Coast - http://www.goldcoastrailway.com/
You'll get typical American boxcars.
I'd recommend to order additional trucks and maybe couplers - if you buy some old stuff on Ebay, it's better to change old trucks by the modern ones, and probably it will be necessary to change the couplers.

Try also RailTT, maybe some kits from Rob M, and also from Shapeways - http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ttnut and http://www.shapeways.com/shops/artanddetail
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby Petercat » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:08 pm

Arseny wrote:
Petercat wrote:I've ordered my Santa Fe F3 from Lok-n-Roll. And I have no USA rolling stock to go with it. Yet.


The simplest way is to start from Gold Coast - http://www.goldcoastrailway.com/
You'll get typical American boxcars.
I'd recommend to order additional trucks and maybe couplers - if you buy some old stuff on Ebay, it's better to change old trucks by the modern ones, and probably it will be necessary to change the couplers.

Try also RailTT, maybe some kits from Rob M, and also from Shapeways - http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ttnut and http://www.shapeways.com/shops/artanddetail


Arseny, you're a pretty good teacher. Everytime I learn something from you, I have more questions!
Sooooo, here goes:
How hard would it be to change the couplers on my BTTB set? Should I go with what will be on the rear of my F3? What will I need to buy?
Or would it be better to keep it as it is, since I will probably never use it as anything but a set.
The Gold Coast cars come with couplers to match the F3, I think.
I will at least have to be careful when buying more European equipment.
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby AstroGoat760 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:04 pm

Petercat wrote:The Gold Coast cars come with couplers to match the F3, I think.


Unless you custom ordered couplers to be fitted to the GC cars, they are not normally sold with couplers attached. There are a few options for you, depending on what you want. The most common couplers used with those cars are Kadee #713/714s or MicroTrains #1025. If you want, you could fit Tillig or other European couplers, however they tend to cost more and are harder to get here in the US.

You will like the Lok-N-Roll F3. Which one did you order?
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby Arseny » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:04 am

Petercat wrote:How hard would it be to change the couplers on my BTTB set? Should I go with what will be on the rear of my F3? What will I need to buy?
Or would it be better to keep it as it is, since I will probably never use it as anything but a set.
The Gold Coast cars come with couplers to match the F3, I think.
I will at least have to be careful when buying more European equipment.


As I told earlier, the Kadee couplers and BTTB (or Tillig) ones are NOT compatible.
As concerns your cars and locomotive - you can easily change the couplers, but only to the new Tillig ones.
If I am not mistaken, they do not have NEM-shafts; couplers have "flat tails" and are connected to the car by spring pin.
Tillig offers compatible version of his new coupler, just to equip old stuff, but other manufacturers do not.
Of course, you can try to attach NEM-shafts or Kadee couplers to your cars but it needs some work. :think:

On the other hand : as concerns Gold Coast cars - they are sold WITHOUT any couplers! You are to order couplers separately and attach them by yourself.
I suppose they are designed for the Kadee couplers, so you'll need just a screw to attach Kadee (or MicroTrain) coupler to the Gold Coast car.
As declared, you can also use Tillig couplers on the Gold Coast cars. But when I asked them, which coupler should I use, what art.№ - Felix could not answer me anything concrete. :? I am afraid, nobody used Gold Coast cars with Tillig couplers. :wink:

As concerns Lok-n-Roll's F3 - as I know, they come with Kadee couplers. So, if you decide to use BTTB or Tillig couplers, you should change it?..

Another reasons: if you buy any American stuff somewhere else, most of them will be equipped by Kadee couplers or designed to use Kadee.
(The only exception I know is Norkin-model; he prefers to equip his SD45 with NEM-shaft; and also RailTT produce his cars both in BTTB- and Kadee- versions).
Old HP or Gandy Dancer stuff that you can find on Ebay may be equipped by old HP couplers, but they are attached by the same method, simply by screw, so they can be easily replaced by Kadee.

Another reason: do you really want to use your German locomotive from 1920s together with the American boxcars? Or American diesel locomotive with old Prussian passenger cars?.. :shock: :think:
I am not sure it is a good idea, it will look too unrealistic...
(Even if you want to model Cuba - they used Soviet and American stuff, but I doubt about Prussian ones; Soviet Union used some German stuff and American too, during the World War II and after it (and also during World War I), but did not use exactly F3s nor AAR steel boxcars, nor Fowler boxcars)

As for me, my decision was to use BTTB couplers for my European and Russian stuff, and Kadee or Microtrains couplers for American stuff. I recommend you to do the same (or you can use Tillig instead of BTTB if you prefer modern stuff and do not want to use a lot of Peresvet's Russian models)

You can use Kadee 713 or 714 (they are identical, the only difference is color). They are declared as HOe.
They are a little bit big for TT but work good.
Also you can use MicroTrains couplers, they are declared as N scale, but they area a little bit big for N, so they are almost ideal for TT.
Kadee and MicroTrains couplers are compatible and can work together. They have a similar design.
Kadee couplers are to be assembled (be careful with the springs! They can fly away! :wall: )
MicroTrains couplers are ready-to-use, you need only the screwdriver. :smile:

P.S. If you still want use your European/Russian and American stuff together, you can use special "car-adapter", "car-connector". Provide yourself with one car equipped by Kadee coupler from one end and BTTB car from other end. You can make it by yourself or order such car from RailTT - if he produces both BTTB- and Kadee-compatible cars, I suppose he can produce one "hybrid". :smile:
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby LVG1 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:06 pm

Petercat wrote:But those windshields make them look like sad little puppies.


The large windshields are mandatory in Europe.
The see slits typical to American locomotives are prohibited here because they limit the engineer's field of vision too much.
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby j p » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:40 pm

LVG1 wrote:
Petercat wrote:But those windshields make them look like sad little puppies.


The large windshields are mandatory in Europe.
The see slits typical to American locomotives are prohibited here because they limit the engineer's field of vision too much.


I don't think so. Remember that it is an engine from 1954. At that time steam engines were manufactured (even in Germany). Was the field of vision good on those?
It is much more simple: it was a licence from EMD. Some part of the design was from USA, some from Australia, and something had to be modified for European smaller clearance outline - including the cab. The cab design was based on the original, with some roundening in order to fit the smaller clearance.

Danish similar design looked even better (Frichs) - they were not sad. The rest of the Danish engine was not so lucky though, they were not very reliable. Frichs tried to make everyhing themselves instead of buying a licence.
Would they look good on a fantasy European layout? Perhaps in DB paint scheme from 1970's?
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby LVG1 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:23 pm

The enlargement of the windshields (compared to the Australian design) was neccessary for nothing but the better view.
Try to get a permission to operate a locomotive with windshields which are as low as those of most American locomotives on European tracks. You won't get it.
It was the same that time. Steam engines were still tolerated because they were not intended to operate for a long time, any more. But more modern types of traction had to fulfil more modern requirements.
There's a reason why hood units with high hoods (which offer a view that's similar to steam locomotives) were used (almost) only in Eastern and Southern Europe.
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby j p » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:57 pm

LOL
I don't want to argue with you, keep your dream.
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Re: I need some advice (all of it!)

Postby Marquette » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:19 pm

That Frichs-built MY has a very Baldwin flavour to it. I like it!
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