Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby Zs12 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:27 am

I think the problem isn't that there aren't enough people interested in NA-TT, but many of them have slight different priorities if it comes to a specific model. For NOW it would be the best not to wait longer for companies which maybe produce RTR models, but to create a list of model parts and basic kits which are necessary to meet the needs of the most of us and can be produced in bigger quantities like the ASF fright truck. :!:

For example me, I like the availabe Gold Coast kits but need alternative ends, like an 3/4 improved dreadnaught end and/or an early improved dreadnaught end version, which would allow to build cars similar to the 1944 AAR design. An arch bar truck of the quality that the ASF truck has for the Fowler box car and other scatchbuild projects would be great, too.
Last edited by Zs12 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby j p » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:51 am

scaro wrote:
true, but looking at what is, even 25 modellers in a prototype does enable you to do small scale stuff. it would make getting runs of boxcar roofwalks, castings, small runs of decals viable. we'd be going to rail graphics for runs of NYC and subsidiary boxcar lettering. small scale resin car sides, a bit of 3D, would be viable. trucks etc. a manufacturer might start to take a look, because he sees people all committed to one thing, some nice models winning prizes at shows, and he's got more of a chance to sell a craftsman kit of an NYC rebuilt boxcar, for example.

everyone would want some erie, EL, PRR cars, a Wabash car, Nickel Plate ... so a market for the runs of decals and later, resin castings for wagons from those roads too, and you start to grow outward from the basis of an initial, collective focus.


I am getting lost in this. People keep mentioning things as "would have" or "would like to have" for stuff we actually have now.
You want a roofwalk? So order it, support the manufacturer. I have just ordered 4 AAR 40' boxcars undecorated with the new etched roofwalks.
Small runs of decals. I am trying to help with that. Time is the limitation. I try to use the decals on my cars first, so the process is sometimes slowed down by the 'carbuilding workshop'. Sorry. That is done for 4 (four) customers - no way to do this on commercial basis.
Resin cars can be ordered from RailTT
Trucks: we have 3 types of injection molded trucks, all of them very nice.

Here is a message from Sylvie (Lok-n-Roll):
As for the order system in our shop...we are aware it doesn´t work for foreign customers and we don´t like it either. We are on the lookout for a better solution but couln´d find anything yet, since the german business regulations for international shipping are... well, let´s say complicated and involve lots of work. We do not have a problem with shipping internationally, however, foreign customers will just have to contact us directly for now.
Thanks again, have a good day!
Sylvie for Lok-n-Roll
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby Zs12 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:56 am

The very most people use N scale decals, I guess. And sorry, but the russian Peresvet trucks, if you meant them, are not prototypical for any NA RR.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby j p » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:30 am

lüTTe wrote:The very most people use N scale decals, I guess. And sorry, but the russian Peresvet trucks, if you meant them, are not prototypical for any NA RR.


I mean GoldCoast ASF truck and Art&Detail roller bearing trucks (70 and 100 tons).
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby scaro » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:51 am

jan, i am not bothering overly about selecting great examples, roofwalks, trucks etc, whatever, because we are talking about something that will not happen.

such a 'critical mass' will not form around one prototype in a broad scale designed at portraying a standard gauge prototype. at least not in the US. it never has in any other scale; why would TT be different?

it does not surprise me that a number of the TT models that have been released have one interesting feature in common ... they are all used in Canada, which can produce that critical mass because it has only two big railways.

i nominated NYC as my US 'critical mass' solution because it ran all over the place, had designs that were picked up by a lot of other railways (more than PRR, i think) and unlike the UP, people do not seem to pathologically hate it :grin:
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby Marquette » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:06 am

j p wrote:
lüTTe wrote:The very most people use N scale decals, I guess. And sorry, but the russian Peresvet trucks, if you meant them, are not prototypical for any NA RR.


I mean GoldCoast ASF truck and Art&Detail roller bearing trucks (70 and 100 tons).


Of which only one is of any use to anyone modelling any time before the early/mid 1960s. So there is this big "all over the place" going on of things that can't be used together. Which is fine - if the manufacturer is producing stuff for their own benefit first, and isn't concerned overmuch about making a profit or even breaking even, in some cases.

Re: decals: people use N scale decals because... what else is available? Small runs like j p is doing, or one-off sheets done by/for individual modellers. I proposed some time ago to pool together to place an order for a run of decals to suit the '37 AAR boxcar... but the response was, to put it gently, tepid. Ah, there is another source of decals: there are a variety of decal-makers who are willing to print in TT. The only drawback to that is that almost all of the sets available from those guys are sets that are not commercially available in HO. So we can get TT scale decals for obscure equipment, but not for anything that's a common prototype.

And another bit of news on the decal front: I will make a more specific announcement shortly (once I've got a basic instruction sheet prepared), but I now have in my possession 19 sets of decals for Baltimore & Ohio N17 hoppers (N17 being the B&O's designation for USRA twin hoppers). Of these 19 sets, 7 are for me, so I will make the remaining 12 sets available for sale. Each set will do two cars - one in the older scheme with the fully spelt-out "Baltimore & Ohio" titles, and another in the billboard-style "B&O" scheme introduced in the mid-1950s. And here's the best part: these are NOT Alps-printed, but silkscreen printed decals. And with the artwork having been done by someone connected to the B&O Historical Society who has done artwork for decals in other scales (the artwork for the N17 was originally done for S scale), they are accurate.

So, there's my first concrete contribution to TT. I won't make any money off it. I'm at best hoping to maybe break even. If I don't sell any of these sets, I'm not overly worried, because I will need a full train of these cars anyways. But at the same time this will also illustrate a point I was hinting at: the only way things will become available in this scale is if individual modellers are willing to take a plunge to make something that they need, and as an incidental, make some available to others.

It's nice to daydream about what could be, but this is the reality.

The reality is that everyone wants to model something different - which is great! But reality also is that the majority of us have a limited hobby dollar, and as much as I would like to support every venture in TT, I have to carefully pick and choose what I spend on. So as gorgeous as those bulkhead flats or container cars or SD70 may be, if it's not something that ran in 1958 I can't use it, and if I can't use it I can't justify the expenditure. This is why I've been trying to say that trucks, detail parts and NA proto track are where our attention needs to be in terms of (near)-mass-production of TT product goes - those are the things that have the broadest possible market.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby scaro » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:50 am

Marquette wrote:Of which only one is of any use to anyone modelling any time before the early/mid 1960s. So there is this big "all over the place" going on of things that can't be used together.


I think for a lot of people, modelling TT means collecting and running everything ever made for TT scale. As that is just about all that is possible at the moment, that is reasonable, but it is never going to attract anyone to the scale and if modelling a particular prototype is the aim, we are not in the game. I think Richard's display is both useful and a great way of attracting those collector/runners and maybe one or two who want to come to TT because of the challenge. I don't think any of us would do other than welcome both groups.

On the other hand, the Fowler boxcar was all but extinct by the time the SW came on the scene and a distant memory by the time of the GP38-2. The modern boxcar could run behind either loco but I doubt the wisdom of publicising that car because it's almost the definition of an HO foobie, I think the catcalls will actually put people off TT.

The thing with the SW1200 and the GP38-2 is that given how thinly spread the scale is, they are both absolute miracles. No doubt of it. Al and CSD deserve some kind of TT lifetime achievement medal.

But they are going to do something else ... show the Lionels up for what they are; crude toys. I don't know, maybe this is no bad thing?
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby j p » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:27 pm

Marquette wrote:
And another bit of news on the decal front: I will make a more specific announcement shortly (once I've got a basic instruction sheet prepared), but I now have in my possession 19 sets of decals for Baltimore & Ohio N17 hoppers (N17 being the B&O's designation for USRA twin hoppers). Of these 19 sets, 7 are for me, so I will make the remaining 12 sets available for sale. Each set will do two cars - one in the older scheme with the fully spelt-out "Baltimore & Ohio" titles, and another in the billboard-style "B&O" scheme introduced in the mid-1950s. And here's the best part: these are NOT Alps-printed, but silkscreen printed decals. And with the artwork having been done by someone connected to the B&O Historical Society who has done artwork for decals in other scales (the artwork for the N17 was originally done for S scale), they are accurate.

So, there's my first concrete contribution to TT. I won't make any money off it. I'm at best hoping to maybe break even. If I don't sell any of these sets, I'm not overly worried, because I will need a full train of these cars anyways. But at the same time this will also illustrate a point I was hinting at: the only way things will become available in this scale is if individual modellers are willing to take a plunge to make something that they need, and as an incidental, make some available to others.


This is good news, I'd buy (or trade) some. Fortunately, I have some HP/John Harmon kits left. :thumbup:
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby CSD » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:41 pm

Marquette wrote:... So, there's my first concrete contribution to TT. I won't make any money off it...


Welcome to the club!

scaro wrote:... Al and CSD deserve some kind of TT lifetime achievement medal...


Thanks.
Mark
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby ctxmf74 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:38 pm

"i nominated NYC as my US 'critical mass' solution because it ran all over the place, had designs that were picked up by a lot of other railways (more than PRR, i think) and unlike the UP, people do not seem to pathologically hate it"

The US rail scene is based on interchange so there's little reason to pick one railroad as a focus. 90% of the equipment is freight cars of varying roads. So pick a loco that most railroads used ( Athearn picked the GP7 and called it a geep 9 but no one cared) build lots of them in paint schemes that appeal to regional interests and build lots of freight cars and folks will happily buy the stuff and run their trains. Saz Model has the TT ball rolling with the new switcher so now we need another piece of the puzzle to show up.I've heard rumors of another freight car on the horizon and am ready to spend money :>) ......DaveB
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