Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby Marquette » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:27 am

I don't know how many people - HO scalers and N scalers both - say that they'd switch to TT if there was more available, based on the perfect balance between the two that TT's size offers. Dave is right. TT's size is still its best argument.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby j p » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:45 am

Richard-B wrote:
Just read through this post. Very interesting, but as a noobie TT scaler could somebody explain to me why when I look at those models sitting on the table I see all of them, except for the hopper car, made outside the US?

Define "made" ...???
    The descriptions for the two Gold Coast cars say (hidden behind the cars in photo) "US - Oregon"... even though they were assembled in China from US injection moldings
    I wasn't sure on the TT Scale Society GP38... so I put master = NZ, Resin Casting = US
    The Waffle Box was done in NZ for a US customer... It is going to Germany for casting
    The SAZmodel was product-managed from Canada... and some of the artwork was done in US, then produced in Czech Republic
    The Shapeways items from Alex were 3D printed in NY... but could have been done anywhere (EU etc...)
None of this would have happened without the impetus of North American modelers...
Also: I suspect that updated versions of some previous US-manufactured resin cars will emerge soon from a trusted supplier...
My planned clinic will mention ALL the known sources...


You can write 'designed in Oregon, assembled in China'. That would resemble the inscription on Apple products and could make some people smile and it could make Bernd happy.
(It does not matter for me, the only TT scale product made in Denmark is a rail bike)
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Re: TT at PCR-NMRA Coast Division meet

Postby dileTTante » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:14 am

Richard-B wrote:I put together a small show-and-tell for this past weekend's PCR-NMRA Coast Division meet...
This has been bothering me ever since it was posted. I don't like to be critical, because any promotion of TT is good. But it would be better to have a running TT train. An oval of track, an SW1200, and a selection of cars. It's not difficult, and it's more effective, and more fun.
-Terry
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Re: TT at PCR-NMRA Coast Division meet

Postby Richard-B » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:54 am

dileTTante wrote: I don't like to be critical, because any promotion of TT is good. But it would be better to have a running TT train. An oval of track, an SW1200, and a selection of cars. It's not difficult, and it's more effective, and more fun.

Audience is key:
This was NOT a general interest event... where an oval with a train would appeal.
The attendees are almost all experienced modelers, who wanted to pick-up and examine each of the TT models.

Over the years, I can't remember -ever- seeing a running train at a Coast Division meet, other than the John Allen Timesaver switching contest. It is just a matter of event style.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby ctxmf74 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:31 pm

" I can't remember -ever- seeing a running train at a Coast Division meet, other than the John Allen Timesaver switching contest. It is just a matter of event style."

A timesaver type layout running a Sazmodel switcher and some Gold Coast cars should be a big hit. Let'em see how sweet that little loco runs after they hold it ? .......DaveB
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby scaro » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:55 pm

So far as I know, PVM stopped, and no one is making his kits?

I know it won't be a popular view, but I would urge not doing a kit of the waffle boxcar if it's religiously based on the MDC HO foobie.

The MDC car is wrong in so many respects. The only thing they could have done to make it worse was model it with a ninth wheel.

One fault alone, the backwards diagonal roof is simply impossible to fix.

On another topic Richard's post analysing the real deal with the fabled On30 situation is very good reading and there are folk who really ought to copy it out a hundred times.

Just being a nice size will not make TT what any of us want and anyone with the wits to stand back and observe how the scale has fared, can but see that this is fact.

I picked up a small HO boxcar last week at an exhibition, maybe a low roof, double sheathed car. And you know what ? It was a nice size. HO scale .. of all the damn things. And they get to letter their cars in H0, model obscure RRs and all that fun stuff we don't get to do in TT. Starting to make me think.
Last edited by scaro on Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby j p » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:09 pm

scaro wrote:So far as I know, PVM stopped and no one is making his kits?

I know it won't be a popular view ,but I would urge not doing a kit of the waffle boxcar if it's religiously based on the MDC HO car.

That car is wrong in so many respects. One fault alone, the backwards diagonal roof is simply impossible to fix.

On another topic Richard's post analysing the real deal with the fabled On30 situation is very good reading and there are folk who really ought to copy it out a hundred times.

Just being a nice size will not make TT what any of us want and anyone with the wits to stand back and observe how the scale has fared will see that this is fact.

I picked up a reasonably small HO boxcar last week at an exhibition, and you know what ? It was a nice size. And you know what? They get to be able to letter their cars in H0, model obscure RRs and all that fun stuff we don't get to do in TT. Starting to make me think.


If you are looking for obscure railroads, I can offer decals for Mexican Eagle tank car. Google cannot find it.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby ctxmf74 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:36 pm

"Just being a nice size will not make TT what any of us want "

No but being the nice size and having the product selection that the other less nice size scales would. People need to know that there's nothing wrong with TT scale, there's something wrong with the manufacturers who don't know a nice size when they see it. If you want change you gotta lobby for change, it does no good to just praise the status quo .....DaveB
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby scaro » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:29 pm

You've stepped right into the big void at centre of your own argument in blaming the manufacturers for not picking up on the nice size ... it is that very thing that I pointed out cannot alone make the scale a winner.

TT had the same support in 2008 when you started saying this, as it has in 2014, which if nothing else should tell you that it hasn't gotten any truer.

One of the manufacturers even came here to give it a look and there wasn't enough else to make him stay. The size isn't enough.

One of the other problems that hasn't been pointed out is that H0n3, often pointed at as an example of something that has worked ,works because it is a scale limited to a relatively discrete prototype and era. About 90% of it must be one railroad, the D&RGW.

TT is much more broad based. Richard's display, showing a Fowler boxcar and the MDC foobie waffleside shows both the variety of the scale and one of the biggest reason why it is not likely to work. It would only work if we all modelled one railroad and one era. If say, we, all 25 of us, got together and agreed that from here on, we all modelled, say, the NYC 1940-1960, then we'd have a small but well formed market for craftsman level NYC and related kits, one that might even attract NYC modellers from other scales, we'd have sufficient size for runs of decals to be viable, and the market power to order chassis for some of that steam, and all those Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin and Alco diesel oddballs.

But we don't do that. Nor should we, to be fair ... I mean, does anyone do that? I suppose there's the odd scale built around one prototype. H0n3 largely is, and you have things like 5.5mm/ft scale in the UK which is used for British and Irish narrow gauge prototypes and has that same 'nice size' factor in sitting between 4mm and 7mm scales. But people don't come to TT with the intention of using it to model one prototype. TT's equally useful, or useless, depending on your way of looking at it, for modelling the SP in 1930 or the NS last year.

But where minor scales work, they work in those kinds of niche, whereas our scale, errr, doesn't.
Last edited by scaro on Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge gathering of TT-scalers in California!!!

Postby TTTerrific » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:21 pm

I agree totally with Scaro.

TT was touted from its inception as the "scratchbuilders" scale. It is and always will be, re northamerican RRs, the "scratchbuilders" scale. Now in my late sixties I can clearly recall the last five years of steam operations on the SP. That was way back in the mid-1950's. Since the replacement of steam power by diesel, I think we're into the at least the third and maybe the fourth generation of diesel power, not counting all the other changes to the rail scene over the past 60 years or so.

In fact, I would dearly love to model the SP in 1930! I will do so--albeit--one PFE reefer of the era at a time. I'm busy trying to get my modeling skills to the point that I can tackle a steamer or two on my own. I won't be going for the level of detailing that is now available stuff I want to doin brass and a number of truly fine plastic HO steam models, but I hope to be able to build something that is immediately recognizable as a legitimate SP model of "credible" (not "contest") standards and that, above all else, operates well.

I got out of HO because I was too "star struck" with the veritable wonderland of stuff that was/is available in that scale. I simply couldn't make up my mind as to what the hell I wanted to do model railroad wise. TT (via John Harmon and Larry Sayre) got me going in the direction of scatchbuilding rolling stock and structures, etc.. I'm really enjoying this scale, and the comraderie of this site where, at least when it comes to northamerican prototypes, we nearly have to magically spin our models out of thin air--almost!

The support from model railroad mfg's I'm looking for is almost entirely in the area of rolling stock trucks, model autos, trucks, people, proper size motors for locomotives, ladder stock, brake wheels, etc., etc. :wave:
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