HP Catalogue 1948

Re: HP Catalogue 1948:helps date my diesel

Postby milwrd1 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:39 pm

D Martin wrote:
IMG_2769-grey-on-brown-E-side.JPG

The ad from MR in 1946 shows the first screened opening close to the cab door, and the short or "low-rise" grab irons under the second screened opening, not behind it. So my brown/orange/yellow unit must have been early production from 1946 until possibly 1955. I have a 1956 catalog showing the screened opening moved back away from the cab door and therefore having the short ("midships") door grab irons.

D. Martin in W. Tennessee


I agree. The brown unit is early production, the grey unit is later, most likely about 1955. However, the grey unit still has the old (and soooo ugly) stamped truck sideframes. Looks like this is an older chassis on a newer style body. Later E7 units (I believe starting in 1956) had the very nicely detailed lost wax truck side frames, modified headlight and number boards. The lost wax truck sideframes were most likely made by Kemtron. Take a look at the headlight on the nose of each model. I'll bet there different, perhaps a photo :?: :?:
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Re: HP Catalogue 1948

Postby areibel » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:48 pm

milwrd1 wrote:This does mean the 2-8-8-2 came first came with small drivers and a later run produced a kit with larger drivers? Very interesting.


That I can't say for sure- From what I've been able to gather, the first 2-8-8-2's were built with a pair of Consolidation frames that were modified to couple together, so I just assumed they used a stock HP 2-8-0 frame to start? I'm not sure when the Mikado's with the medium drivers were released, the '48 catalog shows a Mikado built from a Consol and all the other locos listed have small drivers. It announces a 4-8-2 Mountain (along with the Pacific) for 1949, so it seems that if a 2-8-8-2 was offered early it would have been a small drivered version? I should have asked Larry and Garn Smith a bunch more questions!

The rest of the story I have, the 2-8-8-2 wasn't very successful due to it's long wheelbase, so it was dropped. The later 4-6-6-4 was offered with the medium drivers on cut down Mikado/ Mountain frames. The question I've had is if they used all the same parts (except the frames), such as the boiler, the front deck, etc.. And if either loco was available as a RTR locomotive, the info I have from Larry is basically a Mikado instruction sheet with some added notes to help build the articulated up.
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Re: HP Catalogue 1948

Postby milwrd1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:59 pm

milwrd1 wrote:
j p wrote:I have a different question: does anyone have a 1946 catalogue? I was told that one of the models I bought some time ago was shown only in that catalogue. I would like to get it confirmed :wink:
It would help me to get the history of that one early-TT engine correct.
Please pm if you can help in this. Thank you!


I did check my TT scale my files and found that the earliest dated HP piece of paper I have is dated July 15, 1947. No pictures are shown on this, just a listing of the available products, part/kit number and the price. Price listed is retail. It is called a "Price List". Even without the date I know it is very early HP, since it lists the early 600 series freight coupler. Picture to follow when I get a chance!!


As mentioned above, below is a photo of the earliest HP piece of paper I have. The date of 7/15/47 shows it is early HP, review shows that the only engine listed is the 0-6-0 switcher, the 2-8-0 consolidation was pencilled in by a previous owner.

HP Price List 0747.jpg
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Re: HP Catalogue 1948

Postby milwrd1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:11 pm

j p wrote:I have a different question: does anyone have a 1946 catalogue? I was told that one of the models I bought some time ago was shown only in that catalogue. I would like to get it confirmed :wink:
It would help me to get the history of that one early-TT engine correct.
Please pm if you can help in this. Thank you!


Concerning the possibility of a 1946 catalog, I did some research of the older issues of TT EMPIRE. Below is a paged scanned from the April 1993 issue (Vol 10-No.2).

TT EMP 0493  1948 CATALOG INFO.jpg


Hank Brown was the editor of TT EMPIRE during that time frame, certainly an expert on TT scale and the products produced by HP. I hope the scan is legible...

Note that it says "Until this time only illustrated literature sheets and price lists were available from HP Products. As of November 1, 1948 the first HP catalog became available illustrating the complete line".
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Re: HP Catalogue 1948:helps date my diesel

Postby milwrd1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:19 pm

[quote="D Martin"]
The attachment IMG_2769-grey-on-brown-E-side.JPG is no longer available
Hi,all:
So my brown/orange/yellow unit must have been early production from 1946 until possibly 1955. I have a 1956 catalog showing the screened opening moved back away from the cab door and therefore having the short ("midships") door grab irons.

Scan below from the green 1956 HP catalog showing the location of the first screened opening, the new cast nosepiece and the lost wax truck sideframes on the HP E7A diesel:

HP E7A 1956 CATALOG.jpg
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Re: HP Catalogue 1948:helps date my diesel

Postby milwrd1 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:12 pm

milwrd1 wrote:
D Martin wrote:
IMG_2769-grey-on-brown-E-side.JPG

The ad from MR in 1946 shows the first screened opening close to the cab door, and the short or "low-rise" grab irons under the second screened opening, not behind it. So my brown/orange/yellow unit must have been early production from 1946 until possibly 1955. I have a 1956 catalog showing the screened opening moved back away from the cab door and therefore having the short ("midships") door grab irons.

D. Martin in W. Tennessee


I agree. The brown unit is early production, the grey unit is later, most likely about 1955. However, the grey unit still has the old (and soooo ugly) stamped truck sideframes. Looks like this is an older chassis on a newer style body. Later E7 units (I believe starting in 1956) had the very nicely detailed lost wax truck side frames, modified headlight and number boards. The lost wax truck sideframes were most likely made by Kemtron. Take a look at the headlight on the nose of each model. I'll bet there different, perhaps a photo :?: :?:


This morning I looked at the 2 oldest HP E7A units that I have, including 1 in the very old brown box. Both of these units have the first screened opening located about 3 feet behind the cab door. So, the date of the grey unit (originally thought to be 1955, as noted in the post above) in the photo provided by D. Martin is unknown. The brown unit is a very early production E7A unit. I have no idea when the change was made to the body shell moving the location of the first screened opening.
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