HP 4-6-2 project

Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby areibel » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:28 pm

That's an HP Products Ten Wheeler 4-6-0. That was their latest production engine and the only one they made from brass, everything else had the cast white metal boilers. It's probably one that could have helped them out, but they had some sort of production issues (they were a govt. contractor for the Defense Dept) and supposedly they got back burnered for the better paying jobs. There were a lot of ads announcing "The Ten Wheelers will be available soon!" but they're pretty scarce.
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby j p » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:33 pm

Back to Terry's 4-6-2:

Would instructions help you? I think that it is quite clear from them where to place the reverser and one wire from the cab to the reverser and the other from the reverser to the valve gear hanger.
(see pictures)

Those are only cellphone pictures, I can scan the instruction sheet tomorrow if you need a better quality.

- Jan
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby dileTTante » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:02 pm

That's great! No need to scan. Thanks so much.

Actually, scans of the instructions would be good for the HP section in the models library. Web searches for TT information usually show up models in the TT Nut library. But the posted images are all I needed.

-Terry C.
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby Graandpa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:59 pm

Bernd wrote:Nice steamer. Makes me wonder what I have. A 4-6-0, 4-6-2 or a 4-6-4. I'll have to dig through my old magazines and see if I can find a prototype for more info.

Image

Bernd

That's a 4-6-0. There's no frame extension behind the driver's on which to mount a trailing truck
areibel wrote:Interesting build Terry! I know Chris Happe was experimenting with DCC in HP locos, but it scares most guys off! They are very prone to shorting (and frying decoders in the process), but the way you've done it by separating the pick ups is smart- I had thought about trying a set of cast resin cylinders to isolate them but didn't get past casting them up.
The motor should have had a thin piece of card stock under the motor originally, you could use them to adjust the mesh or even stack them for more clearance but I've seen a lot of locos that some "restorer" had tossed it and cranked the screw down tight. The DC60 motor will usually run fairly smooth with just a little attention, they draw a little more amperage than a can motor and they can be a little balky at low speeds but they're tanks when you get them running well.
I'll see if I can get to one of mine, the reverser is on the other side (a cast piece and a piece of wire), the only thing to watch is for the small fiber pivot on the valve gear hanger- at their age they will break if you looks at them sideways. Some guys have taken the valve gear apart and soaked them with paint or ACC to make them a little sturdier, or Elmer McKay made a resin one that cures the problem.
Nice job!
Al


Rob M wrote:
dileTTante wrote:Thanks for the comments. Hoping for a photo or two for arranging the pipes and linkage. I guess I can fake it for now and try to get things right when it gets repainted.

I enjoy working on the models. My frustrations are mostly from being old.

Still think Mark's a hero for what he did for TT.

-Terry

No pipes but here is a photo showing the linkage,
Image



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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby dileTTante » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:26 pm

areibel wrote:They are very prone to shorting (and frying decoders in the process)
Al

My locomotive is running and the photo shows it on a test track. It's looking much worse for wear because I have taken it apart so many times trying to fix a short circuit. Al's warnings about things which could go wrong seemed like a prophecy which was coming true.

The fiber rocker arm in the valve linkage began to break, so I put super glue on both of them, thanks to Al's idea. I had to make a new piece for the motor brush holder, too. I got the motor running well on the chassis only to have it bind when the boiler was put on. There is almost a millimeter of clearance fore and aft. No room for shims of any thickness. Now what I do is adjust with the locomotive fully assembled -- slightly loosen the mounting screw and shift the motor by a hair and tighten the screw. I repeat this until the armature can rotate freely. Even when the motor can turn, if it isn't positioned exactly right it can draw too much current.

This thing ran well on the test track for a few minutes then begin to short. The Roco Z21 control shut off each time, so I didn't lose the decoder. That meant the loco wasn't ready to run at our recent show but I took it there and established that at least I had the rear coupler mounted at the right height to match the rolling stock.

After chasing down every possible cause of a short circuit, I suspected that it wasn't a short and that it was the Digitrax decoder overloading. I wired in a NCE HO decoder as in the photo and no more shutdowns. The loco runs well as long as the motor doesn't shift. This decoder won't fit in the coal bin of the tender, so I'll have to open the wooden bottom and put the decoder in the rear chamber - assuming there is one.

I've lost count of how many times I've been poked by those cursed straight pins used in the valve linkage.

For re-painting I have to choose a railroad. The model doesn't directly correspond to any particular locomotive. Xenia suggested SP but the tender is completely different. The ones I've seen in photos from Rutland and Soo line are more like it. I don't much care which road, I'm after whatever takes the least amount of modification. Any suggestions, please?

-Terry C
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:32 pm

Go with the SOO and be done with it. Kudos on not giving up.
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby dileTTante » Wed May 24, 2017 12:44 am

DSC04206R.JPG
The tender was taken apart and the wooden core was replaced with a hollow frame. I used an extruded PVC plastic called Sintra. It can be cut with a knife. Super glue works as a solvent on this material, so the glued joints are actually fused together.

The first picture shows the components before they were glued together. Later pictures show a revised mounting at the front which has an extra cross piece to take the screws. The frame looks crude because I don't have a machine shop, just a kitchen table and hand tools.

It was difficult get measurements because there was no common reference. The wood block still had paint and glue on it and it had a shim glued at the top to compensate for the curve in the top casting. Thanks to Bjoern, I tried Gorilla glue to stick the castings on to the new frame. It really works.

I soldered a tag to the brass bar to provide an electrical pickup from the wheels to the decoder. The whole wheel assembly with decoder is secured by four machine screws and can be removed as a unit.

- Terry C
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby dileTTante » Wed May 24, 2017 12:49 am

These photos show re-assembly. The new paint chips just as readily as the old paint, which is disappointing. I have to be very careful handling it. I'd like to fit a plug at the front to make disconnecting the locomotive easier but I haven't thought up a way to do it yet.

I'm not thrilled with the results. But on the other hand I am lucky to get it back together at all.

-Terry C
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby areibel » Wed May 24, 2017 7:07 am

More Excellent work Terry!
Another hint I just thought of is to paint the inside of the boiler with clear nail polish or line it with black electrical tape. That can help with the motor shifting problem if there's a little insulation inside as well. That hint came from the late great John Fisher in England, a noted TT experimenter extraordinaire!
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Re: HP 4-6-2 project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed May 24, 2017 11:32 pm

Oh man I love stuff like this! It may not be perfect but the joy is in the doing.
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