Hl signalling, general practise question

Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 am

Hi all,

The "main line" on Stromallee has the following arrangement where the industrial tracks branch off:

Image

The signals I've drawn on aren't there yet, let along purchased. My first question is, according to general DR(DDR) practise, would running around of a train likely take place in such a location, ie what is effectively a passing loop off the running line? The second is, what would the exit signal from the industrial line be? Would it be a main signal, or a shunting signal with the exit signal from the loop acting as the starter signal for a train heading off from the line?

Thanks

Rich
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:12 am

Oh, and does anyone know of a good web shop who sell Hl signals in TT?
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:42 am

Hey Rich, see if this is of any help http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_railway_signalling

It mentions that "The Deutsche Reichsbahn adopted a new signalling system from the OSShd" so I assume OSShd regulations may have an answer for you as well.
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:53 pm

Hl signalling was the East German version of OSShd. There's a singularly excellent English language site at http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/index.htm, but though it leaves me comfortable with correct use of signals in a given situation, I'm less sure about practise- ie I can make things technically correct, just perhaps not "in character".
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby dileTTante » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:40 pm

It says on the page 'If you don't find what you were looking for: Just ask me.' So why not ask there? The site is very good, thanks for the link.
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby LVG1 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:28 pm

Rich B wrote:My first question is, according to general DR(DDR) practise, would running around of a train likely take place in such a location, ie what is effectively a passing loop off the running line?


Depends on the amount of traffic. On a low traffic line your arrangement of tracks will work. :thumbup:

Rich B wrote:The second is, what would the exit signal from the industrial line be? Would it be a main signal, or a shunting signal with the exit signal from the loop acting as the starter signal for a train heading off from the line?


No main signals (for instance Hl) in factory sidings!!! :!:

Only large industial railroads with several kilometers of open road and (an) own station(s) (except for the connecting station) will have main signals. But in GDR (almost) only lignite mine railroads where that large. But they transported only lignite, rubbish and MOW, had different coupling systems (non-compatible with other systems [large version of link and pin]), and partially used different light signals (non-OSZhD-conform). They operated mainly mine-to-power-plant traffic. Only few coal was reloaded into regular hoppers for transport on public railroads.
Connections to public railroads existed only for MOW and for corporate use of space for parking pausing trains.
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Perhaps industrial lines is a misnomer on my part, I envisage it as being somewhat like the Feuerbacher Industriebahn or these tracks in Dresden's Industriegelände, which clearly do have signals as they're right there in the streetview! Anyway, presumably the connection with the main line tracks must have some signalled protection?
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby LVG1 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:49 pm

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind when answering.

There's a clear differentiation between trains and switching units in Germany (and probably not only here).
  • In switching units usually only the locomotive's brakes are used. That's why the cars' brakes don't have to be connected. However, usually they are, but they're seldom used in switching.
    But trains use all brakes available. So all brake hoses have to be connected.
  • Before each tour a brake test is mandatory in trains, but not in switching units. This brake test is executed in stations, but usually not in industrial tracks.
  • In contrast to switching units, trains have to wear EOT-signs. These signs are stored and mounted in stations, not on the customer's property.
So a train can only start in stations. Main signals are for trains and switching units while switching signals are only valid for switching units.
Because from an industrial track only switching units can come, a main signal would be useless at this position.
For your purpose a switching signal will be the right choice. For GDR—the "W"-board was the most widely-used one—in industrial sidings often without Ra12 signal.

Rich B wrote:these tracks in Dresden's Industriegelände, which clearly do have signals as they're right there in the streetview! Anyway, presumably the connection with the main line tracks must have some signalled protection?


The signals in this image are for protection of the level crossing as discernible by the arrangement of lights. They are neither main signals nor switching signals.

By the way:
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:43 am

That sounds very much like British practise, not that we have much left in the way of wagonload freight. We would similarly only have a shunt signal to enter the loop from sidings etc, then the loop's signal is the starter. However, I have two level crossings... I guess I need to protect them? I'll draw up a full plan, something I'd been meaning to do anyway.

LVG1 wrote:Königsbrücker Straße—the wide road in the aerial photo—is part of my way to work...


I know it fairly well- I've spent six weeks overall with the Goethe Institut in Dresden. Last time I stayed at Handwerkskammer, hence knowing the Industriegelände tracks.
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Re: Hl signalling, general practise question

Postby Rich B » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:55 am

I've sent Wolfgang Meyenberg an email, to try and sort out a remaining question, and hopefully get a bit more guidance! I'll share any information when I have it.
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