Here I go again.....

Re: Here I go again.....

Postby Juup » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:43 pm

It would be nice to see a complete new plan. When I first showed my loft layout plan to this forum people were encouraging me to do an around the room design with a duck-under (or a piece that could be raised to get into the centre of the room. The plan improved in lots of respects from other super feedack, but I resisted on the duck under and stuck to a U shaped plan ... have committed to this now with benchwork almost finished. Yes a U shaped plan shortens the length of the parade track and you need space to turn around trains at the ends of the U shape DaveB's point. For me that was mitigated by having hidden space behind the layout plus one end of the U being a dead end station. However, you have a through station and are limited by solid walls. Juup

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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ctxmf74 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:16 pm

"I guess around the room it is"

You can sketch up some possible around the walls designs to see how much you can fit in and how the module joints could fit in with the track plan then stand in the room and visualize how it would look and feel. If you can mount it about chest high a wall mounted backdrop will greatly enhance the views. There are some printed paperback books on shelf layout designs by Ian Rice and Lance Mindheim that might be helpful ..DaveB
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:48 am

If I decide to go around the room, the basic design would be something like this:

Station 7.jpg
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ctxmf74 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:36 pm

"the basic design would be something like this"

That looks like it fits well and leaves lots of space in the middle of the room. Where would the door come thru? The station side looks really nice , lots of interesting scenery and operations. On the other side do you really need that much staging? and will it be easily accessible behind the backdrop? It would be simpler if the two separate "parade route" tracks could be moved to be the first two yard tracks and eliminate the interior backdrop. That would shorten the scenery to the two side area plus one scenic'd staging yard instead of the longer continuous scenic run but it would also eliminate two tracks and some turnouts and the backdrop between the tracks. If you do the interior backdrop as shown in your plan you can search for "surround staging" and see if you can find any info on the height and reach needed to make it work ...DaveB
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:22 pm

ctxmf74 wrote:Where would the door come thru?


In the current room, the door is to the left of the station (the layout doesn't block it). I'm not concerned with windows.

ctxmf74 wrote:do you really need that much staging? and will it be easily accessible behind the backdrop?


I do, this layout is mainly for my German trains which I have a bunch of. The backdrop can be an easy lift out.

ctxmf74 wrote:It would be simpler if the two separate "parade route" tracks could be moved to be the first two yard tracks and eliminate the interior backdrop.


The only thing I don't like about that is that the trains would be going through a yard - I prefer some "out in the wild" scene.
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ctxmf74 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:39 am

"The only thing I don't like about that is that the trains would be going through a yard - I prefer some "out in the wild" scene."

Yeah, You'd lose some of the wild country, there'd still be some left on the sides and the curves leading to the staging. The advantages would be easy access and the trains would be on display when the layout is not running if you like to see them when you are in the room. I guess removable backdrops could give the best of both worlds as long as they are easy to manipulate....DaveB
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby Juup » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:15 am

Hi ConducTTor,

I think this looks really nice. A few observations. The new plan gives you 8 dedicated staging tracks. Assuming you have 2-4 trains out on the visible layout and then another 8 in the staging area, the layout can accommodate 10-12 trains. The earlier diagonal plan had 7 dedicated staging tracks. So you have increased this by one. In my own planning I reduced the staging slightly in the end, accepting that I may keep some models in my downstairs office display cabinet. Not a bad solution because then I will have some models to look at while downstairs, and I expect then I can alternate a bit what I am running on the layout - e.g. tweaking the combination of trains to be more purely DB era IV - my main focus - or to lean towards late IV/early V, or early IV/late III. So, an ad hoc way of justifying the slightly reduced number of staging tracks :) I will post my latest track plan in my own loft layout thread in a day or two.

I like the backdrop idea, because it gives you the clean scenic run that you wanted. A removable backdrop of some kind is a nice idea, yes. I wonder now whether the height of the layout might be an issue with staging behind the scenic route. Chest height - as DaveB suggests - would make it easier to hide the staging and the backdrop can be less imposing. However, it would be harder to get to the staging when needed without removing the backdrop. Lowering the height of the layout would make the staging potentially more visible, but also more accessible. My own layout is much lower due to sloping roof line in the loft. However, I think I prefer the birds eye view offered by a lower height ... thinking it works better with a deeper layout design (mine is about 2' 4" deep all around). If it was a narrow design (e.g. 1 foot) it might look strange to have it very low. Maybe my preference is from my experience (when younger) of centre of room layouts which usually are lower, but you get to see everything that is going on even in the centre of the layout. I also think I will appreciate being able to sit down and work on the layout rather than having to stand or balance on some kind of high-chair. Finally, if I want a more ‘straight on’ perspective I can sit down on a chair (swivel type of course). Okay, all that may provoke DaveB into providing a counter-argument :)

Finally, I would be tempted to add a bit of depth to the scenic section in front of the staging even if that complicated access to the staging further. Also, an ideal way of hiding the staging would to me be a hillside of some sort (yes would require some more depth) rather than a vertical photo/picture/wall something – a hillside would add scenery to the scenic section.

My sense then would be to find the best balance between height of the layout and accessibility/visibility of the staging, plus of course adjust according to preference for viewing aspect, and perhaps also consider reducing the number of staging tracks by a 2-3 or so.

Will you be running DR or DB, or both? Mostly passenger, freight or both? Our two layouts may not be so different in the end :)

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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby Juup » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:20 am

One more thought ... making the turnout on the far left of the station area a right turnout (so the turnout is the start of the curve) rather than a left turnout would enable you to increase the curve radius on the top left corner considerably without any loss of station length. Juup
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby j p » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:07 am

There is another problem with the station: misalignment of the 'axis'. It does exist on the real railroad, but it is quite rare and it has been removed wherever possible. In case of such a misalignment it is not possible for a train to run through the station at full speed. I have never seen it on a double track line.
In normal situation, the express train would have the possibility to run straight through the turnouts, which means without reducing its speed.
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Re: Here I go again.....

Postby ctxmf74 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:49 pm

"Finally, if I want a more ‘straight on’ perspective I can sit down on a chair (swivel type of course). Okay, all that may provoke DaveB into providing a counter-argument :)"

No argument from me, I'm sitting down now and I plan to sit more as I get older. My layout is chest high but I figure I'll put bar rails on it and get a higher stool someday.

As for the staging being behind the backdrop I generally try to simplify layouts as I find they hold one's interest better if they are trouble free and easy to use. and after years of living with the layout it might turn out that trains sitting there in the yard become more pleasing to look at than some more scenery?......DaveB
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