Help me with my show layout

Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby ConducTTor » Sun May 19, 2013 5:22 pm

LVG1 wrote:Ohhh...!!!
That looks sooo familiar to me.
All this old BTTB-material—I'm feeling like home. :roll:


Better?

lo.jpg


I was going to run some US material but my only running engine right now - the Tillig FP7 - is getting hung up in a few areas. Apparently the bottom of the trucks hangs lower than usual.
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby ConducTTor » Sun May 19, 2013 5:26 pm

Arseny wrote:Looks good!
Will you put some station buildings on the layout?


No station - I have no passenger cars for US trains. There will be some small industry in the front - the side with 3 tracks.
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby AstroGoat760 » Sun May 19, 2013 8:29 pm

I intend on running some passenger cars, as well as my Lok-N-Roll F-3 at the show, so regardless of if we can get one of those SW1200's in time for the show, we will have North American proto consists at the National Train Show.
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby WillYart » Sat May 25, 2013 10:24 pm

Looking great. That foam works well for you?
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby ConducTTor » Sun May 26, 2013 12:52 am

WillYart wrote:That foam works well for you?


Well enough. It holds everything together well and it's easy to work with. I've read many people saying don't use the pink stuff because it can't be glued down but I've had no issues with it (using silicone).
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby WillYart » Sun May 26, 2013 2:21 am

I see. I just saw a youtube video of a guy using liquid foam to fill in the gaps in between quite nicely.
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby railtwister » Sun May 26, 2013 12:46 pm

The pink and blue foams are basically the same stuff, the reason for the different colors is the manufacturer (Dow is blue, Owens Corning brand is pink). There also may be a brand that is bright yellow, but I'm not sure what the manufacturer or compound actually is, because I've only seen it from a distance as it was being installed on a building. It seems to be used on the exterior, while most of the blue and pink foam I've seen is used on the interior. Both pink and blue varieties can be had in different densities (for different R-ratings), although in these parts, you're lucky to find a supplier who stocks it at all, much less in different densities.

Extruded polystyrene foam can be glued with carpenters glue (either white or yellow), artist's acrylic modeling paste, acrylic caulk (w/o silicone), or my favorite, polyurethane glues (like Gorilla glue) which turn to an expanding foam in the curing process. Gorilla glue can create a lot of pressure in the curing/expanding process, and this can cause pieces to float and move before the glue sets, so things need to be pinned or securely weighted to prevent them from getting out of alignment.

Water based glues cure/dry as the water evaporates, and on large surfaces, this can happen in the outer perimeter of the glue joint, causing a seal that prevents the center area from curing. The modelers paste is water based, but because it uses a lot of marble dust as filler, it tends to breathe a little better than yellow or white glue, which allows the center areas to eventually cure. I've rebuilt modules several years after their foam was installed with yellow or white carpenter's glue, and discovered the glue was still wet (not just soft) in the middle area of the larger foam pieces! That's why I prefer the polyurethane glues for foam, because they cure by chemical reaction rather than evaporation.

The problem with using caulk that contains silicone is that paint or scenery glue doesn't stick well to the dried silicon. If the area is small, the scenery glue may be able to form a bridge over the silicone so you might get away with it, but if your scenery is going to crack and flake off after time, that's probably where it will start. This is more likely to be a problem with modules than a permanent layout, because modules are subjected to more movement and vibrations that tend to work things loose.

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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby ConducTTor » Sun May 26, 2013 1:57 pm

railtwister wrote:The problem with using caulk that contains silicone is that paint or scenery glue doesn't stick well to the dried silicon. If the area is small, the scenery glue may be able to form a bridge over the silicone so you might get away with it, but if your scenery is going to crack and flake off after time, that's probably where it will start. This is more likely to be a problem with modules than a permanent layout, because modules are subjected to more movement and vibrations that tend to work things loose.

Bill in FtL


Now THAT I didn't think about :wall: Luckily there are very few very small areas where silicone is exposed.
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Re: Help me with my show layout

Postby railtwister » Mon May 27, 2013 10:54 am

ConducTTor wrote:
railtwister wrote:The problem with using caulk that contains silicone is that paint or scenery glue doesn't stick well to the dried silicon. If the area is small, the scenery glue may be able to form a bridge over the silicone so you might get away with it, but if your scenery is going to crack and flake off after time, that's probably where it will start. This is more likely to be a problem with modules than a permanent layout, because modules are subjected to more movement and vibrations that tend to work things loose.

Bill in FtL


Now THAT I didn't think about :wall: Luckily there are very few very small areas where silicone is exposed.


Hi Alex,

Normally, neither would I, but the guy we hired to paint our house a couple of years ago warned me about it when he sent me out to pick up some caulk after he had run out. He said you have to read the label and look for the catch phrase "contains no silicone", or avoid "silicone added", if the caulk is to be painted over. If the caulk doesn't need to be painted, then it doesn't hurt to have the silicone.

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Re: Help me with my show layout - ModPodge warning

Postby railtwister » Thu May 30, 2013 10:55 pm

This is a heads up for those of you doing display layouts for the NTS in Atlanta this July.

While refreshing the ground cover (but not the ballast) on my HO modules, I thought I'd try some of the Scenic Express blended Static Grass (I like that!) using ModPodge as an adhesive. After 18 years, the old Woodland Scenics/white glue scenery was showing it's age. I noticed when applying the ModPodge that it had a slight, yet vaguely familiar odor, but I didn't pay it any mind. After the module had dried for several days, I then noticed the nickel silver rails had turned green from corrosion in several places. That was when I realized that the odor I smelled during application was similar to that of Silicone Adhesive, which is known to contain Acetic Acid!

I cleaned the tops of the rails with a BriteBoy, and now they look much better (fortunately the sides of the rails were painted), but at this point, I'm not sure how long it will be before the green hue returns, or even whether it will or not. I have read in several places on the web and in the model press that ModPodge is basically the same as matte medium, but is easier to obtain and also less expensive, so I thought I'd give it a try. I probably should have stuck with the diluted Elmers white glue, but I thought the ModPodge might be better since it is water resistant when it dries (as is matte medium). I'm now rethinking that, and also wonder if the jar of Utrecht matte medium that I bought to try in comparison with the ModPodge will have similar problems.

I wonder why I haven't heard of this problem in the model press or on the web, surely I can't be the only one who has suffered this ill effect. I guess the lesson here is to pay closer attention to your own senses, and the more odor a product has, the more likely it is to be chemically reactive with items on your layout.

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