Germany - DB AG and private Railways

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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby Rich B » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:58 pm

I can't really comment on the popularity, but proportionally I've seen as many 120s on IC/ECs in Dresden and Leipzig (compared to 101s) as I have in Düsseldorf or Cologne. Every time I've taken the Amsterdam-Prague sleeper it's had a 120 from Emmerich to Berlin. Plus the 120.2s now run on the Hanse Express from Hamburg to Rostock. They're popular enough for Märklin, ACME and LS Models to all have released versions of them in H0 over the last five years, plus the older models from Fleischmann and Lima.
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby LVG1 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:00 pm

Rich B wrote:I can't really comment on the popularity, but proportionally I've seen as many 120s on IC/ECs in Dresden and Leipzig (compared to 101s) as I have in Düsseldorf or Cologne. Every time I've taken the Amsterdam-Prague sleeper it's had a 120 from Emmerich to Berlin.

I can't confirm that. When the night trains run, I'm only very seldom close to the tracks. But day-time IC / EC trains are pulled by series 101 in Dresden. Series 120 only occasionally serves as replacement.
In general, series 120 is clearly more used in West Germany while in East Germany series 101 dominates.

Rich B wrote:Plus the 120.2s now run on the Hanse Express from Hamburg to Rostock.

That's five locomotives on one line through a rather sparsely populated region.

Rich B wrote:They're popular enough for Märklin, ACME and LS Models to all have released versions of them in H0 over the last five years, plus the older models from Fleischmann and Lima.

They sell in West Germany. There series 120 is relatively popular.
But TT scale is hardly sold in West Germany. And in East Germany, People don't feel related to series 120. Here it's considered to lack in an own character. Here it's hardly noticed.
I don't know of any East German model railroader who wants a model of series 120—regardless of which scale.
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:47 pm

LVG1 wrote:I don't know of any East German model railroader who wants a model of series 120—regardless of which scale.


Just curious - do East Germans model ANY West German trains? Also do East Germans model Era V and/or VI?
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby Christtking » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:29 am

I'm Romanian and I "COLLECT" all the German railways eras. I am not East German and I buy all kinds of locos and cars. I have some other European rolling stock in my private collection. I love them all. In my opinion it is a matter of taste and budget. :smile: :angel:
PS I know only one store in Frankfurt auf Main that sells TT scale products (not so many, new and second hand). I am not certain if he (Hans: the owner) is still there, last time I was in Germany was year 2002, he was still there. Hans had some older production & some newer ones from BTTB, some products made by BECKMANN TT and some older Tillig batch. Cheap too!
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby LVG1 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:32 pm

ConducTTor wrote:Just curious - do East Germans model ANY West German trains? Also do East Germans model Era V and/or VI?

They do,
although there is a tendency towards kind of local patriotism.

But I think, this question doesn't lead to the background of series 120's lack of popularity in East Germany. Other West German vehicle types are also popular here.
I think, there's more behind it. I think, it's got to do with series 120's image in East Germany.
Companies invest lots of money to create positive images of their products. Your product may be the best on the market with an unbeatable price; if its image is negative, you'll go bankrupt, although. In the 1990's, West German media created an image of series 120 which is very negative in the eyes of many East Germans.
But that's politics. So this actually is the wrong place to talk about that. But if you want to really understand something, you'll have to consider all aspects related.

It's a story of the unseen limit between patriotism and arrogance.
For decades, it was kind of belonging to the etiquette that western media told people that the West was better than the East and that western products were better than eastern ones. It may be seen as kind of patriotsm to support people's self-confidence this way. On the other hand, media sell better if they sweet-talk to their customers. However, people believed in that—West and East Germans as well.
But after the fall of the Berlin Wall, East Germans got in touch with western products and realized that their own products were not so much worse than their western counterparts. There are even examples for the opposite. But West German media didn't realize that these East Germans now also belonged to their potential customers for about a further decade. So they tried to back their outdated myth up. They invented examples for East German products which were pretendedly copies of West German ones. These new myths accompanied with many (mainly old) West Germans claiming that East Germans were lazy and incapable.
This behavior ignored East German effords and capabilities and hurt East German national pride. This was practiced so excessively that it became more and more an insult for East Germans in general and one of the most important posts of East German prejudices about West Germans which still exist.
Well, I've not become aware of such behavior for the recent (may be five or so) years, any more. But something so longsome and formative won't fade away so fast.

What has it got to do with series 120?
West German media invented also examples for modern East German railroad vehicles which were predendedly copies of West German ones. Series 120 was the most preferred type of railroad vehicles which were abused as examples. Pretendedly, there were some modern vehicles in East Germany copying series 120's components. Especially popular was the myth that series 156 was a copy of series 120. Those who have some basic knowledge about the technology of those locomotives knew that this was simply a big pile of B***S***. But there were more than enough people believing in nonsense like that.
This way, West German media created a direct association between series 120 and this "national mobbing" in the heads of most East German railroaders. For some of them, series 120 even became kind of embodiment of West German ignorance and arrogance.
However, series 120 is something having kind of "uncomfortable aftertaste" for many East German railroaders. Unfortunately, such aftertastes very often survive for half an eternity, even after their activator has long been forgotten. Many East German model railroaders still feel this aftertaste, even if most of them don't remember why, any more...

I think, this story is a formative part of series 120's unpopularity in East Germany. As you can see, it's got nothing to do with the locomotive itself. It's simply a matter of "How to treat my neighbor"...
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:46 pm

I understand. Thanks for the explanation!
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby CN-TT » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:02 pm

@LVG1: No offense, but this is some serious MRP (Model Rail Psychology) :crazy: :? :roll:
... and I would love to have this model!
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby j p » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:32 pm

CN-TT wrote:@LVG1: No offense, but this is some serious MRP (Model Rail Psychology) :crazy: :? :roll:
... and I would love to have this model!


It is available from German e-shops for 250€.

I hope that Tillig does not release this model. Why should they do the same mistake again and again? People who wanted BR120 have it already at home, so the market is rather limited. I would prefer if they made a model nobody else makes. Such as VT 11.5.
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby Christtking » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:44 am

@jp: I totally agree with you! Tillig should release other models no other company makes, but unfortunately Tillig does not think that way sometimes. They wait for other small (some) companies to develop a new product then they want to take over (let me re-phrase that: they will make an offer for the moulds) . This is my personal opinion. It is a fact that for years Tillig had this mentality, they want no competitors. And about the DB electric 120, it might be available at home (Europe), but there are other people that are interested in Beckmann TT models such as me (all the way across the ocean). TT scale European is very hard to get here, one needs a reliable source (Euro Train Hobbies) that have the models in stock or can order and guaranty they can get the products, and a reliable source (or more) from Europe.
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Re: Germany - DB AG and private Railways

Postby LVG1 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:41 am

CN-TT wrote:@LVG1: No offense, but this is some serious MRP (Model Rail Psychology) :crazy: :? :roll:

You'ld be surprised how massively psychology influences all parts of life...
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