German loft layout

Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:43 pm

Juup wrote:The distance between the tracks will be adjusted at the track laying stage. Will consider various factors such as signalling ... catenary ... smooth running of long passenger trains and more.


The most usual distance between tracks in Continental Europe is 4.5 m (37.5 mm in TT) inside and 4 m (33.3 mm in TT) outside stations, respectively. NEM recommends 38 mm inside and 34 mm outside stations on straight tracks. If you keep to those minimum dimensions in straight sections, you shouldn't have any problems with your vehicles. And the additional 4 mm inside stations should be enough space for signals.

By the way:
What is the usual track distance in America?
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Re: German loft layout

Postby Juup » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi LGV1,

Are these numbers between track centres or between the outer tracks? If track centres, why does the Tillig modell track system use 43mm track centres? Are your prototype jumbers Bern gauge standard?

Don't know about America. I'm sure many others here will know.

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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 pm

Juup wrote:Are these numbers between track centres or between the outer tracks?


Between track centers!
I didn't know that other reference points are used, too.

Juup wrote:If track centres, why does the Tillig modell track system use 43mm track centres?


I don't know.
But I guess, they want to ensure that on dual track lines long vehicles can run on their tight radiuses without problems.

Juup wrote:Are your prototype jumbers Bern gauge standard?


I don't know Bern gauge standard. And I don't know if these numbers are regulated by any standard. I only know that these distances are the most common ones.
Only on high-speed lines larger distances are used. But the different countries handle that differently.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby Dibbedabb » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:26 pm

And in small curves you should have at least 45, better 50mm between track centers... Otherwise you won't have a lot of fun if you are running long vehicles (like the doubledeck cars).
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Re: German loft layout

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:59 pm

LVG1 wrote:The most usual distance between tracks in Continental Europe is 4.5 m (37.5 mm in TT) inside and 4 m (33.3 mm in TT) outside stations, respectively. NEM recommends 38 mm inside and 34 mm outside stations on straight tracks. If you keep to those minimum dimensions in straight sections, you shouldn't have any problems with your vehicles. And the additional 4 mm inside stations should be enough space for signals.


Good to know thanks :wave:
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Re: German loft layout

Postby MacG » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:09 pm

Juup wrote:Yes EW2 is too short.

and your space in the loft too small! :wink: I Use EW3 on Mainline and EW2 at the yard, the radius of 631mm is not too small. But I got more track length between turnouts. There are some NA prototypical plans, where is the EW1 too long to create it at the model. :o

@j p: there are two sides of the bolts. One is higher (out of the rail) and one is smaller. Because of the rail height and the flanges of the wheels. Some flanges would be driving of the higher bolts.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby j p » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:08 pm

MacG wrote:
@j p: there are two sides of the bolts. One is higher (out of the rail) and one is smaller. Because of the rail height and the flanges of the wheels. Some flanges would be driving of the higher bolts.


Yes, I know. They put some of them wrong, I have noticed it and fixed it.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:13 am

ConducTTor wrote:
LVG1 wrote:The most usual distance between tracks in Continental Europe is 4.5 m (37.5 mm in TT) inside and 4 m (33.3 mm in TT) outside stations, respectively. NEM recommends 38 mm inside and 34 mm outside stations on straight tracks. If you keep to those minimum dimensions in straight sections, you shouldn't have any problems with your vehicles. And the additional 4 mm inside stations should be enough space for signals.


Good to know thanks :wave:


For those who have closer interest in the European norms, here are some links.
Unfortunately, the norms are currently not available in English. But most drawings and tables will be self-explanatory, if you know what the abbreviations mean.
  • NEM 103 actually describes the boundaries around the track which have to be kept free for save running. But it also defines the car classes (A, B, and C) which are used by several other norms important for track distances. These car classes are defined by the cars' body lengthes (not length over buffers) and by their trucks' pivot pin distances. The measures are given for the prototype. The table contains only the scaled-down body lengthes.
  • NEM 111 lists the minimum radiuses plotted against the car classes (A, B and C mentioned before). They are given in multiple of the gauge.
    Abbreviation:
    G = gauge
  • NEM 112 recommends minimum track distances. The first table shows them for staight tracks inside and outside stations. The second table lists them for curved tracks plotted against the radius of the inner track and against the car classes (A, B, and C mentioned before). All measures are given in millimeters (1 inch = 25.4 mm).
  • NEM 113 is a guidance for the geometry of transition bends.
    Abbreviations:
    G = gauge
    R = radius
    L = length of transition bend
    f = sidewise distance between radius and straight track
    ÜA = transition bend's start
    ÜE = transition bend's end
  • NEM 114 is a recommendation for superelevations. It's recommended to only use superelevations in combination with transition bends.
    Abbreviations:
    G = gauge
    u = height of superelevation
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Re: German loft layout

Postby Juup » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:23 am

Time for an update. Progress has been gradual, but I am spending a lot of time getting things level and structurally sound. Have attached a couple of photos.
DSC01616.JPG
The view from the end of the loft, back towards the door and the other space (where the stairs come up). It's all a bit of a mess (even though I cleaned up a bit before taking the photos).
DSC01615.JPG
This is the view entering the loft space. Station will be on the left (about 4 inches above the structure visible there now. The lack of plywood sheets where the station will be is to allow access to the underneath of the station where there will be multiple turnouts and more. You can get a sense of how the track on this level goes underneath the purlins (both left and right) to turn around the trains and for staging areas. I will lay the track onto the plywood pieces before slotting them into these less accessible areas.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Good progress....it's always slow ;) You don't have turnouts planned in the hard to access areas do you?
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