German loft layout

Re: German loft layout

Postby MacG » Wed May 22, 2013 5:26 am

I've your plan modified. You have enough space for storage the locomotives. Not at every railway station were facilities for all kinds of drive. With the diesel and the steam facility you have two. Electric locomotives can you store at the diesel shop. At the second track from the wall. You need there no catenary, that are moved with a little diesel or accu locomotive, like the ASF. The fueling facility moved to a inbound track, so that you can get diesel without drive over the transfer table. At the turntable look a roundhouse perhaps better. The coal can load with a crane. In the late era IV some buildings of the steam era were demolished, for more space or the lack of necessity. Between track 2 and 3 is space for locomotives, that take the trains out of the station. The arriving locomotive drive behind the outgoing train out of the dead end track, to the storage track or to the diesel facility.

I hope you understand, my english is not the best.

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Re: German loft layout

Postby ConducTTor » Wed May 22, 2013 7:38 pm

I can understand you. I never learned about the logistics moving trains/locomotives around so the above is good information. Thank you.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby Juup » Wed May 22, 2013 8:22 pm

Hi MacG,

Really helpful - thanks! And if I change things about a bit, as in the attached plan. Does it all still work?

In the attached plan I am keeping the facilities for the electric locomotives, and removing the facilities for diesel. Only the blue track has catenary. I was thinking about small Kof locomotives to move electric locomotives across the transfer table. The Kofs would move along track 2 and be stored on track 1. What facilities do I need for servicing electric locomotives? The little house close to the transfer table is a workshop.

Track 2 might be used for a post train. Tracks 3, 4, 5 and 6 would be for electric trains, and track 7 for steam.

The red track along the wall is for coal etc to service the turntable area. The red track slopes down from left to right, and disappears into a tunnel under the station building. It can join the mainline underground, or it can 'dead-end' underground.

It all seems like a lot of track everywhere. I find it difficult to know, without seeing it in real life, if there is too much track overall. But the space is reasonably large :)

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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Thu May 23, 2013 11:58 am

Some thoughts:

Sanding:
All kinds of locomotives, MU's and cab cars need sand. So the sanding facilities are best placed at a track used by all of them—preferably the exit track or another track leading directly into the exit track. If you place it at a track only accessible via turntable or traverser, you'll have problems to fill the sand boxes of MU's and cab cars. In steam era, sanding facilities stood often at the coaling track so that coaling and sanding could occure at the same time; but that's not a good solution for transition era.

Diesel:
Needed by diesel locos and DMU's, it's usually placed at a separate track because these vehicles are usually fuelled between two regular operations without entering the repair or parking facilities. This track should be directly accessible from both train station and maintanance / parking facilities. You can alternatively place the diesel station at a track accessible via the traverser only; but in this case you lack the opportunity to fuel DMU's.
Depending on the amount of traffic, the diesel filling station's reservoirs can be filled from the same track where the vehicles are fuelled. But with more traffic you should provide a short track for one or two tank cars for this purpose.

Water:
Providing water for steam locos is relatively easy. Place some water standpipes at the exit track and at one or two other tracks which steamers use when coming from or going to the train station's tracks. Additionally you'll need a water tower. But you can place it a little apart—that's not unusual. Use some space which is not needed otherwise. But don't place it at a lower spot than the standpipes.

Coal:
Loading coal onto a locomotive needs time. And time is money. So the coal bunker should be placed at a track which is accessible from both ends (one end towards the exit track, other end as you like it—towards turntable, for instance). Usually either two locomotives are coaled at the same time or one locomotive is waiting on the same track while the other one is coaled. Theoretically, you can place the coal bunker at a stub-end track; but practically that's only usual at the end points of small insignificant branch lines with few traffic. I'm not aware of any example at any depot which is large enough for a turntable.
Your track for the coal cars looks somewhat strange. You need only a short stub-end track (which must be placed next to the coal bunker) able to contain one or two cars. Usually two-axle cars were used for this purpose.

Slag:
Every steam locomotive needs to get rid of its slag from time to time. In small and medium size maintenance facilities, the slag pit is often placed close to the coaling track so that the track for the coal cars can also be used for the slag cars (which were of the same size like the coal cars).

Sheds:
Repair facilities can be used for all kinds of locomotives. But make sure that your locomotive shed / roundhouse which you use for steamers has a capable smoke outlet. Cold steam locomotives were usually preheated indoors. And preheating took about 24 hours and an entire load of a tender. You don't want so much smoke in your shed...

You can find clearly more things in larger facilities. But something of your size would look overcrowded with them.

Tracks:
  • Especially in stub-end stations, take care that every train track of your station is accessible from every track of the open road. This hint seems to be senseful considering the positions of some of your switches.
  • The main tracks of the open road are usually not used as access to the maintenance facilities. There will usually be a separate track for this purpose.
  • Redundant access is not only needed for the turntable but also for the traverser.
  • The exit track needs to be capable to offer space for one or two locomotives waiting for their next operation after maintained and prepared. Larger facilities have more than one exit track where the locos get presorted; but that's not neccessary for facilities of your size. This (/ these) exit track(s) must be bypassable for other locomotives (inlet track). Inlet and exit tracks don't have to lead to different directions (like in your plan); they also can parallel each other.
  • I'ld suggest to not "hide" a track behind the roundhouse. Put it in front of the roundhouse so that it's visible. The eye can only enjoy what it can reach...

I hope, my thoughts will help you and support your planning.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby MacG » Thu May 23, 2013 4:01 pm

@LVG1: at the late era IV you don't need a water tower, a great coal bunker or long coal track. You are right with the redundant access for the mainline.

At the new plan are too less tracks and turnouts. If is broke a train or locomotive, is the station blocked. The electric locomotive can store oneself at the next track. Okay a catenary is there needed. The Köf is good for the transfer table and the freight cars with coal, slag and other.

The steam shed at the opposite side of the station track is not so good. The locomotive has to cross the mainline. There is also no pulling track. To pull the passenger cars from the steam loco. So that the loco can go refill coal and water.

There are no deployment tracks (waiting spots), to change the locomotive. Only the steamer has one, but then you need always two steam locomotives for a train (extra). All electric would come from track 1 or from the facilities for the electric locomotives. The normal train have two locomotives, because it is a dead end station. The first came with the train, the waiting second take train and the first drive to a waiting position. Then it can take the next train.

The turntable and roundhouse is okay with a third track beside the main. Only the mentioned place, opposite the railway track, must be changed. You can change the track for steamer. The coal track is too long and not plausible. You can switch the freight car over the transfer table at a shorter coal track.

I have sketched a plan yesterday, the redundant third track is missing.
Incoming freight is coal or things for the facilities. The same track is for outgoing freight.
Only track 5 has no waiting spot - good for reversing trains with driving cap coach (railcar or some else).

It is in english hard to explain all necessary tracks and connections of this plan. I hope you understand and you can learn for your new variant.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby ConducTTor » Thu May 23, 2013 9:31 pm

All of this ^^^^ is very interesting to me. Thank you. Are there books or anything available on railway track planning (German tracks, written in English). Sorry to hijack the thread......
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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Fri May 24, 2013 9:51 am

ConducTTor wrote:Are there books or anything available on railway track planning...


Unfortunately not. I've been searching for several years for such a book—especially about depots.
All I know about this topic is a puzzle of details which I've read here and there and some own observations—especially from my time as a locomotive engineer trainee.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby Juup » Fri May 24, 2013 5:30 pm

Yes, very very interesting. I am sensing that I will have to make some compromises ...

Book? I have the one in the attached image, but it is in German. I have obviously not read it carefully enough - :geek: I like it though because photos, examples, tables and data is for TT scale (alongside HO and N). But even in this 'specialist' book many of the details offered by MacG and LVG1 are not included.

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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Sat May 25, 2013 6:01 am

Juup wrote:But even in this 'specialist' book many of the details offered by MacG and LVG1 are not included.


That's not surprising. This book is mainly about stations, not about depots.
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Re: German loft layout

Postby LVG1 » Sat May 25, 2013 9:08 pm

Space is in the smallest hut!

Tonight I tried to create a usable plan for your depot.

Double slip switches save space and make the station more attractiv for the beholder.
I don't know which track system you want to use and if bended switches are available. Probably you will have to adjust it to your needs.
I've removed the platform at track 1. There's no need for too many platforms in stub-end stations which are reached by only one railroad line. This track can be used for the freight which is needed by the depot and for pausing locomotives, respectively.
You can use the space of the former platform for a car park or for some urban houses or for further railway buildings.
Additionally, I shortened track 1's stub end towards the depot. It will rather have the function of a safety stub which is not to be used but only to prevent vehicles from inadvertently rolling onto the main tracks.

I moved traverser and turntable backwards and the main tracks to the fore so that there is more space for tracks between them.
Usually the main tracks only lead over the straight branches of switches (exceptions are few—Eisenhüttenstadt for instance). But that's because through trains shall pass stations at full speed. In stub-end stations trains don't drive through. They all have to go slowly. So there's no neccessity for a staight main.

I've combined pulling and inlet tracks (brown track). Because the station is not too large and traffic won't be too much, it's plausible that this track can also be used by locomotives pausing for some minutes. That's why I've place a water standpipe (red point) there. Otherwise inlet tracks actually don't have standpipes.
The other standpipes (red points) are opposite the coal bunker and at the exit track.

Unfortunately, there's very few space. So the track for the coal cars is extremely short and the coal bunker will have to be scratchbuilt to fit into this place.
The sanding tower spans over two tracks in this plan—the coaling track and the fuelling track.
The slag pit and the track for the slag cars are accessible from the turntable. You can place a band-conveyor between those tracks so that your railroaders don't have to shovel the slag manually from the pit onto the cars.
Inspection pits (like mentioned by MacG) are usually indoors. So there's no need to model them.
The fuelling track leads from the turntable to the traverser. DMU's can reach it via the traverser because the access track is exactly straight across the traverser. The track for the tank cars is also reachable via the transfer table.
Behind the diesel station there's a little space which can be used as storage yard for axles and other spare parts. That's why I've led a track trough the locoshed. This would be a good place for a gantry crane to load and unload cars with spare parts.


By the way:
Actually, I wanted to upload the layout plan to my gallery so that I could embed it full-size into the post. But I couldn't find the upload function, anymore. What's wrong there, conductor?
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